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Dark Elves or Vampire Counts?
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Old 11 Sep 2008, 01:02   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
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Default Dark Elves or Vampire Counts?

I'm looking to start a new army and as the topic suggests I'm having trouble deciding between two armies.

I already have a tomb king army and I don't really want something too similar so was wondering how vampire counts differ or if they are too similar?
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Old 11 Sep 2008, 14:20   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Dark Elves or Vampire Counts?

vampires are one of the most powerful magic-based armies out there.

like tomb kings, they can cast their spells over and over as long as they have dice remaining (they cast their spells normally, rather than the incantations of the TK).


the vampires have a few absolute nails units (blood knights are str 7 on the charge with something like 3 attacks each ) but their basic units are pretty poor (zombies are WS1, T2 no save etc).

however, they can raise their "dead" FAR quicker than the tomb kings and can move around quicker than them as well (their movement spell "dance of macabre" is the cause of a lot of frustration amoungst non-vampire players).


their characters are all SUPER-HARD (these guys had a bowl of pure "hard" every morning whilst they were alive ) and can all be mages as well, just dont let your general die (if you play tomb kings, you will understand )



i dont know too much about the new dark elves. they can have a lord who is near enough indestructible by normal means (1+ armour save, a ward save of your strength and under followed by regen) but they compare "loosely" to the other elven armies.... they are fast and hit hard, but they are made of tin foil.

watch out for hydras if you are up against dark elves, those things are stupidly tough
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Old 11 Sep 2008, 21:24   #3 (permalink)
Aun
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Default Re: Dark Elves or Vampire Counts?

Quote:
their characters are all SUPER-HARD (these guys had a bowl of pure "hard" every morning whilst they were alive
Nice way to put that. ;D


There is another difference between Tomb Kings and Vampires, Tomb kings have shooting, Vampires don't, simple as that.
In a tomb kings army you have skeletal bowmen, light cavalry bowmen and skull catapults, while the only shooting in a Vampire list is from magic.

Vampires Core choices are some of the worst in the game (looking at you Zombie O_O) however, they come in bulk, which is a good thing.
Ghouls, Dire Wolves, Bat Swarms and especially the Corpse Cart are good support choices that are also Core.

Vampire Special choices are some of the best in the game (IMO) with Spirit Hosts that can hold up a unit for the entire game and provide cover from non-magic shooting, Black Knights that ignore terrain (perfect for getting the flanks or a rear) and the rock hard Grave Guard.

Rare Choices for the Vampires are also very good, but very expensive. Blood Knights are brutal, but their extremely high makes means you will only use them in games of 3000+
Cairn Wraiths are slightly better, but still expensive (but their Etherial, so wont die to fast)
the Black Coach is tough for a chariot, but I'm not sure how effective it actually is.
For me the Varghulf is easily the best option, as its fairly inexpensive (compaired to the other Rare choices) and provides usefull support (and its a Vampire for marching purposes)

And last, but certainly not least, the Vampires themselves. Vampires are ungodly, a properly equipped Vampire Lord can eat a dragon for lunch and then the rider as a light snack.
Not only can they have the normal amount of Magic Items, they can have Vampire Powers that let you customise them.

The army in general operates fairly simply.
You should have some solid blocks of Zombies (25+ to a unit) and Skeletons (20+ to a unit) some heavy hitting units to actually win the combats(Grave Guard, Black Knights, Varghulf), and some flanking units to take out War Machines and march blocking(Dire Wolves, Bat Swarms, Fell Bats)
You can use Etherial units to help screen from shooting.

Hope this helps.
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Old 12 Sep 2008, 00:22   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Dark Elves or Vampire Counts?

Thanks for your help guys I have decided to go with dark elves though as I really don't want to be painting up a whole bunch of skeletons again (Tomb Kings = so many skeletons). And Relying on characters is a little frustrating sometimes, particularly when your Heirophant dies early on and your army falls to pieces around you. Weak core choices and special characters motivated by magic seems as Aun said the only difference is in shooting.

So I have the dark elf book on order and I'm getting the battalion for my birthday at the end of next month so I hope to be raiding soon enough :shifty:

Thanks Again for your help guys very much appreciated ;D
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Old 12 Sep 2008, 02:53   #5 (permalink)
Aun
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Default Re: Dark Elves or Vampire Counts?


Dark elves are something of a glass cannon army, and yet they aren't...its hard to describe...

Their cheep Crossbowmen and Reaper Bolt Throwers give them a great advantage in the shooting phase without costing to many points.
Also the whole army Hates every other army, which is a big help in combat.

War Hydras are...awesome. Just watch out for any flaming attacks if your using one (which you will)

Their Core is specialised into Crossbowmen, Warriors (spears and shields) and Corsairs. Corsairs are a very solid troop unit, having two hand weapons, Sea Dragon Cloaks and Hatred.
(but then again, I'm biased, I love pirates :P)

Their other troops are Harpies (Good War Machine hunters) and Dark Riders (Dark Riders have to be some of the best light cavalry in the game with their crossbows, always take a unit if you can)

Special choices are Witch Elves (no armour, but 2 Hand Weapons +Frenzy+ Hatered = Scary Elf Chicks)
Shades are some cool Scouts for the army and don't forget they Hate their enemy. They can normally be counted on to get their job done.

Executioners are a personal favorite of mine (who doesn't like to see people swinging 7 foot long swords around!?!) but they only have heavy armour, so be carefull.

Black Guard, with the right Banner options....are very, very scary. but again, they only have heavy armour to deffend themselves.

Cold One Knights are the mailed fist of the Dark Elves, but their somewhat expensive (but not unreasonably so)
I personally don't like Cold One Chariots (for the simple reason that they have not released a box for it with the new Cold One models, and I don't want to waist two good Cold One knights trying to build it)

Dreadlords and Masters are your basic Dark Elf fighting commanders, arm them like other killy characters.
Death Hags are interesting, but I am still tinkering with them.
Sorceresses are awesome with their rule that lets them use any amount of power dice for a spell, and trust me, with the Dark Elves you will never run short on power dice.
(Remember that scene in Star Wars Episode III when the Emperor kills Mace Windo? "ULTIMIT POWER!!!!" yea, that's Dark Elf sorcery.)

Assassins are brilliant if you give them the skill that lets them have Killing Blow. Just stick them in a unit and point it at an enemy character and savor the expression on your enemies face when you reveal the assassin.

Another intersting thing to point out is a little combo you can do with Dark Elf Magic Banners.
Give one of your special choices the Standard of Hag Graef (all models in the unit get Allways Strikes first) and then take a Battle Standard Bearer with the Hydra Banner (all models in the unit get +1 attack)
This combo is just down right nasty with Cold one Knights and Black Guard.
(Warning, using this combo could cause your opponents to throw models, books or chairs in your general direction)

Happy slaving! ;D
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Old 15 Sep 2008, 00:40   #6 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Dark Elves or Vampire Counts?

Thanks a lot Aun you have been very helpful and that tactica is excellent I shall refer to it when making my lists, you should think about submitting a dark elf tactica! I flagged your post for karma I think it really deserves it, one of the most helpful posts I have ever had thanks again.
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