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Old 24 Jul 2008, 15:49   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Battle Report: High Elves versus Orcs and Goblins- 2,000pts

Intro: Those of you who hang out in chat know that recently I started playing Fantasy, and I’ve been painting furiously for the past 2 months or so on chat. Well- with the army 95% ready (need a new Eagle model), I brought it down to show to my brother and he insisted we “bleed it in!”

Ordo Sylvanus

Characters

Archmage Level 4, with Book of Hoeth
Magic for the game: Lore of Shadows

Noble (Miri) BSB, Dragon Armor, Shield, Barded Elven Steed, Sword of Might, Gem of Courage.

Noble (Lothariel) Dragon Armor, Shield, Lance, Radiant Gem of Hoeth.
Magic for the game: High Magic

Core

10 Archers

17 Spearmen Full Command

Special

6 Dragon Princes 1 Musician, Banner of Ellyrion

6 Dragon Princes 2 Musician, Banner

12 Swordmasters of Hoeth Banner of Sorrcery

Lion Chariot

5 Silver Helms

Rare

Repeater Bolt Thrower

Great Eagle

Notes: Seems a pretty lopsided list I know, but it’s what I own at this point. I really, really don’t like Silver Helms and will trade them out shortly (possibly Ellyrian Reavers or White Lions), and maybe even swap my Lion Chariot for another ground unit like spears…but right now the army has a heavy cavalry theme going and it’s very fun. I’m still learning a lot but from my experiences so far this is a fast moving, hard hitting list that has elements of shooting and magic in there primarily for support.

My brother’s list went something like this:

Warboss with 1+ Save on Boar, and some ‘urty weapon that rerolls hits.

Black Orc Hero BSB on foot with a banner that grants dispel dice based on rank.

10 Spider riders1

10 Spider riders2

6 Boarboyz

30 Orcs Standard, Musician

20 Black Orcs With full command IIRC

40 Gobbos 1 Shields and Spears

40 Gobbos 2 Shields and Spears

30 Gobbos Short Bows

Wolf Chariot

Doom Diver

Spear Chucka with extra gobbo crew

Notes: A huge, back to basics army. Just watching my brother deploy the force which outnumbers me much greater than 2 to 1 was intimidating. The list sports an extremely well built warboss- who I knew I’d have trouble with, but to my surprise it didn’t have any fanatics, nor Trolls. I believe the list is built to take on smaller elite armies by just absorbing what they dish out and running over the remainder with good standing combat results.

Terrain and Deployment: As we played on an ice table, the only terrain we had was about 5 ice formations- two of which were hills and the other three we called impassable. The hills were placed in opposite corners, and we placed one “icicle” near midfield, one sharp right, and one inside a deployment zone (that I wanted my brother’s big force to end up with). Winning the roll for zones, I gave him the one with the icicle in the middle of it and deployed my archers and repeater on the hill. On my far right I placed the Lion Chariot beside the giant hill, and on the inside left I placed Miri with some dragon princes. The spearmen hold center stage, flanked to their left by the Swordmasters and Archmage. Behind them hid the Eagle, and moving left we have another unit of Dragon Princes, this time carrying the Banner of Ellyrion and the noble Lothariel, and finally to their left were the Silver Helms.






My brother countered my deep left by placing the Wolf Chariot behind his hill, and the Doom Diver to the inside right “pocket” of the hill. In front of that he placed his Boarboyz, with the Orc boys just to the right. In the middle he placed a giant unit of gobbos (1), led by the warboss himself, and they were standing in front of a giant unit of gobbos (2), this time using a formation to give him 7 ranks with the BSB and hence extra 7 dispel dice Moving right from my point of view we get 10 Spider Riders (1) and 30 Archers up front. Just behind the archers he placed his 20 Black Orcs, and back in the corner he kept another unit of Spider Riders (2) and the Spear Chucka in the deep corner.



Winning the roll for turn (as usual!), my brother decides it’s best if he moves first, denying me an opening round of fire.

Greenskins turn 1

Not much to report on the greenskins first turn- mostly units marching forward, with the exception of the Wolf Chariot, Gobbos 2, and the warmachines. No magic phase, and in shooting the Doom Diver misses while the Spear Chucka places a wound on my RBT.



High Elf Turn 1

Knowing full well the limitations of his shooting and magic now- the temptation is to jump in there with Princes and Swordmasters, but the reality is that’s what my brother wants, so I’ll have to be patient. At the time I did not know he didn’t have fanatics, so I threw my Great Eagle in front of his Gobbos, hoping to draw them out. I sent my Lion Chariot forward, but held Miri’s Dragon Princes back, marching with the Spearmen and Swordmasters. On my left the Silver Helms and Dragon Princes sort of crisscrossed past each other, giving the Silver Helms the inside edge.

Magic phase was largely a waste of time, as I failed to roll any doubles and either had spells dispelled by dice, or flat out couldn’t make the rolls required- even after throwing 4 or five dice! Yes it was going to be a long day for my mage… In shooting- the RBT fire back at the Spear Chucka, killing one gobo, while the archers killed 2 archers from the gobbo line.

Greenskins Turn 2

A little more of the same trudge forward, except this time the boars fail animosity and do nothing. At this time, the Spider Riders1 charge the Eagle, but its reaction is to flee, leaving their flank open. The Doom Diver and Spear Chucka cause no damage this turn.

High Elf Turn 2

Safe once again, the Eagle rallies and returns to duty, having lured its prey out effectively. Seizing the initiative from the exposed Spider Riders1, the Silver Helms charge them in the flank. The Lion Chariot continues to move towards the Spear Chucka, While Lothariel and Dragon Princes1 line up a charge on the Orc boys.

Magic phase again is ineffective, due to poor rolling and too many dispel dice from the Orc banner. In shooting, a handful of archers fall to the Eagle Claw bolt thrower and the High Elf Archers. In assault, the Silver Helms smash the exposed spider rider flank, killing 3 and causing them to flee through Gobbos1 and Gobbos2, which panics both units!



Greenskins turn 3

Not ready to back out, my brother rallies all three units, yet now he has no position to charge. Furthermore Spider Riders2 continue forward, but charges are out again, yet the Gobbo archers Waagh for a free move and close on the eagle. In shooting, the Eagle suffers a wound from the archers, but both war machines are off once again.

High Elves Turn 3

With a veritable “parking lot” forming in the Orc backfield, Lothariel and Miri and their respective Dragon Prince units charge- Lothariel’s unit into the Orc boys, while Miri hits the Gobbos archers who stand and shoot, killing a Dragon Prince. Elf spears and Swordmasters continue forward.

Magic phase sees a disastrous moment as the Archmage miscasts and burns 4 Swordmasters from his own unit! Archers are out of valid targets within range, and the bolt thrower misses the target Boarboys.

Assault is promising once again, however. Miri’s unit mangles and demoralizes the Gobbo archers, overrunning the unit and following into Spiders 2, and Lothariel’s unit smashes the Orc unit, but the unit holds ground.



Greenskins Turn 4

With the High Elves deep in their backfield, the Orcs try to line up charges. The Wolf Chariot smashes into the flank of Lothariel’s Dragon Princes, while Gobbos1 hits the Silver Helms. The boars, now horribly out of position, are forced to reform in order to protect the heavily damaged Orc backfield.

More ineffective shooting, and Lothariel’s Princes bravely hold off the Orc Boys and chariot, killing more Orcs in combat, but losing a pair of Dragon Princes in the exchange. Meanwhile, Miri’s Princes smash Spiders 2, leaving only 3 who flee towards the table edge. The Silver Helms do not fare so well, however, and lose 1 member against Gobbos1, fleeing the combat.

High Elves Turn 4

The Silver Helms run pretty far back, but stop and rally. With the Lion Chariot in position, Miri’s Princes charge the Black Orcs while the Chariot and Eagle smash into Spiders1.

Magic finally shows up for the High Elves this turn, with the archmage casting Lurker in the Shadows with irresistable force, allowing the Swordmasters to flank the Orc boys fighting Lothariel’s Princes.

Combat is once again swift and deadly, with the Eagle and Chariot killing Spiders1, though the Eagle is killed in the exchange, and the Chariot pursues into Gobbos2. Miri gutting the Black Orcs and running them down, and the Swordmasters tipping the favor back to Lothariel’s combat on the left, killing and running down the Orc boys and causing the Chariot to flee off the table. Lothariel’s pursue move takes him and his Dragon Princes into combat with Gobbos2.



Greenskins turn 5

Most of the greenskins are dead or fleeing, but this only serves to anger the Warboss. His gobbo unit decides to quarrel, which he resolved promptly by killing one of them, which gets all of their attention. They then charge into the flank of Miri’s Dragon Princes, while the Boarboys set a charge for the Swordmasters.

Shooting is…once again…pointless.

Lothariel challenges the Black Orc standard bearer, killing him while the Dragon Princes run them down, but not before the Lion Chariot is destroyed. Meanwhile the Swordmasters kill all but two of the Boarboys, who escape being run down. On the right side, the Orc Warboss challenges Miri, who accepts and wounds him, only to be slain in return, and without her leadership, her unit flees into an impassable ice formation, destroying them. The Warboss and his unit move towards the Elf Spearmen.

High Elves Turn 5

Lothariel’s unit charges the Doom Diver crew, while the Swordmasters charge the fleeing Boarboys. The magic phase results in the Archmage losing another wound to a miscast, and in shooting Gobbos1 is peppered by arrow fire, killing a pair of gobbos, while the volley fire from the Repeater Bolt Thrower kills another crew from the Spear Chucka, causing the last member to flee to table.

Combat on the left is decisive again, with Lothariel routing the Doom Diver Crew, and the Swordmasters killing off the last boars.

Greenskins Turn 6

With only one unit left on the field, the Warboss detaches from Gobbos1 calls for a charge on the Elf Spearmen, and gets a free waagh roll, yet only the detached boss will reach combat. He barks a challenge at the Elf Sentinel champion, who refuses after seeing him maul Miri, yet despite many casualties the spearmen wound the warboss and hold their ground!



High Elves Turn 6

With the Spears in danger, the only unit available to help is the Silver Helms, but they cannot draw LoS to the Warboss. Lothariel moves to claim a table quarter, and the Swordmasters drag their wounded archmage to claim another. In shooting, more members of gobbos1 die to volley and arrow fire, but they remain strong.

Greenskins Turn 7

Note: Either I am wrong in reporting this…or we accidentally played a 7th turn! – Yriel

Joining their boss, Gobbos1 charges the Spearelves, who kill a bunch of gobbos in return and again- hold ground.

High Elves Turn 7

With a target they can now see- the Silver Helms charge into the combat with Gobbos1 and the Warboss. They kill a few gobbos, but in return lose a member, and along with more casualties from the warboss, the Elves must pass a morale test. The Silver Helms fail and flee…but once again the Spearelves hold ground!



And with that, we see a High Elf victory!



Notes: Only my 5th game of Fantasy, and so far it’s been a blast. The High Elf models have always been some of my favorite of all time, and modelling them after my Ultima Online guild just seemed a perfect “fit” with the fluff and models. The battle got incredibly bloody by midgame, and I’m finding that these Elves hit pretty hard! When I heard my brother wasn’t taking a shaman I thought I’d just dominate the magic phase, but as it turns out I can’t roll dice in this game either (nearly killed my archmage through miscasts!), and my brother has ways of generating a good amount of dispel dice. In the end I felt I as able to capitalize on my superior manueverability when working against large blocks of greenskins, but I still had no answer for that Warboss, who was an absolute terror. My only saving grace against this monster was that he was late to join the party, and it ended quickly after he arrived.

Thanks for reading!

- Yriel
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 16:07   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

For the glory of Ulthuan! A really enjoyable read Yriel.

Would you change anything in hindsight?

I've found that since the update my magic is doing hardly anything in every game I play. My favoured Archmage from the previous edition never see's battle anymore.

~Pettsy~
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 16:10   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Great BatRep Yriel, I had no idea you were getting into Fantasy.

High Elves are a horrible match up for Orcs and Gobs. I know my Orcs and Gobs have a torrid time with them, you cant outshoot or magic them and when you do get into combat you never have the combination of Armour AND Toughness to survive with enough models to make a dent. Im 2-2 Vs the new High Elves with my new Greenskins, they chalked up massacres against everything else they faced.

I like the White Lion Chariots although they are a bit of a glass cannon. One is capable of beating fully ranked up units alone.

I think in the current Fantasy environment, your list is lacking a little in magical defense. My Orcs run with 10 Dispel Dice and I still often get hit with some powerful magic.

You don't really need any more power dice with having the Book of Hoeth though.

I know there isn't really anywhere to put it in your list, but if you do re-work it, the Talisman of Loec is one of the deadliest things in the game. Perhaps even just stick it on the Swordmaster Champion.

Thanks for the report [+1].
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 16:54   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Thanks for enjoying it guys.

Pettsy: There's a few things I'd change. I'm just not sold on that Lion Chariot, and although the RBT was good this battle- I'm thinking I'll lean towards another eagle in the future. Also- the Noble with Gem of Hoeth was more of a fun fluff thing, it isn't an optimal setup really, as a level 1 is most often just a scroll caddy.

Veq: Yeah- my brother tricked me into starting fantasy the same way he got me into 40K 16 years prior. He bought me models he knew I'd like. Once that happens- I have to paint. And once I paint some- I want to paint nicer ones. And once I paint more- well then I have an army...

Truth is I thought I'd hate fantasy because it felt so rigid and overpowering from the outside, but I'm having a blast. I figure I'll stick with High Elves for a while to master the game (and it will probably always be my main army), but in the future I'm looking at Dark Elves (like everyone else right now) or Lizardmen, as I also enjoy those models.

- Yriel
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 17:02   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Im assuming you won your other 4 games of Fantasy to?

I dont think the Gem of Hoeth is too bad, its a nice cheap dispel dice and with the Banner of Sorcery actually adding to the Pool, it allows him to actually get off some of the lower spells.

With the depth you go into for 40K tactics, Id have thought Fantasy would have been perfect for you Yriel, you can plan with reliability here.

Although Silver Helms are pretty hated, I suppose they arent too bad if taken raw as a flanker. You dont get the Fast Cav rule but they will last longer than the Reavers.

Did the Gobbos fearing Elves [that they dont outnumber 2-1] have any impact on your game?

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Old 24 Jul 2008, 17:46   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Haha Yr! Glad to see you battle! ^_^

Over all I like the battle... I won't comment much on tactic. Except ->

- Putting Arch mage in swordmasters isn't great idea. Sword master are number one target in your army as it is, they are weak and die fast. Don't make it even bigger target by adding archmage or any character for that matter.
- Gem of currage -> you can not re-roll a re-roll. Give it to some champion (like swordmaster)
- Warboss that you are so terrified of isn't even the strongest set up : In anycase, you should never have any problem with him. You got dragons, kill blow items (you do right?), ubber wards saves, and great armor(that can be re-rolled) and strike first. If anything, I'd be sweating when fighting elven characters.
- Use your RBT to either thin down orc ranks with multi shots OR go after (look for flank shots) cavalry. If you had a cannon, then you can do artillery "dual", but with RBT = not worth it.

***Note on your brother army. I do not like it. At all. I won't go into details, but at least tell him to make his BSB a black orc and mount his ass on a boar for nice Armor save. Orc BSB on foot is asking to be killed***

Over all I think you played a good game. Your army... Well as I said, I know you have model inefficiency and issues with proxies, but I'd make it a bit more "shifted" towards either Cav or Infantry.
With spears costsing as much as they do, I am not sure how effective Idiot will be for you. Then again, you have very solid infantry choices that can hold a line (Sea Guard, Warded Phoenix Guard or Stubborn White Lions)
Then again all Cav army (with minimal troops being archers) isn't as fun as it looks. Don't get me wrong, "spike" backed up by Star Dragon works. But still, I guess its just not my style ^_^.

P.S. I hate you! You have 95% of the army done >_> XD Good Job mate, all those hours on chat are paying off eyh? ^_^ Ohh and DE are bloody great now. I said it a lot and I'll say it again. GREAT book. Not a point click AT ALL. I have a debate on my next army. Most likley Orcs or DE, both geared for TVI. They will both have spin on it that my lizards don't have and there fore it won't feel the same. ^_^

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 18:11   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Your obsessed with TVI Red-Dog! :P The Orc army wasn't too effective but I have a feeling from Yriels battles against his brothers Preatorians that the guy really likes using a serious horde with little in the way of fancy stuff. Though in Fantasy that could perhaps be tailored into a chequerboard [sp?] style approach which can be very effective.
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 19:23   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Haha Veq...you're dead on about my brother. It doesn't matter what army he plays, whether fantasy or 40K he just likes LOTS and LOTS of models. Hmm...you think he'll be doing Skaven as his next army..?

Red Dog- I think you're thinking of the Dragonhorn, which lets you reroll leadership tests. The Gem of Courage allows you to take one test on 3D6. Now, considering it's on the BSB- if this is a critical point in the battle- you can take a ld and reroll it, using 3d6 on the first roll or the second roll (but not both). That's a pretty handy thing to have when you're sorely outclassed and trying to buy time for countercharges. Of course it was a moot point since I accepted the challenge from the Warboss and lost all the abilities in one go. :P

I have been experimenting putting the mage with the spears or the swordmasters, and right now neither is that ideal (spears are better though).

Thankfully I do not have to proxy (unless you count taking a warhawk as an Eagle much of a proxy...it's just easier to fit in the case right now.). I will be buying at least one proper Eagle model though- I'm just dreading trying to fit the bigger body in my case.

Moving forward I may swap out for White Lions or Phoenix Guard...or both. I love both models- it's just a question of what to buy/paint/use first

- Yriel
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 20:03   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Veq -> To quote the infamous show "House"

"I am not an addict! I just really really like Vicodin." hahaha XD

Furthermore on orcs. You know that if you want that kind of horde you NEED like 4 (or at least 3 and the caddy) black orc chars to keep the damn animosity in line. Hordy approach is fine. The point is, there has to be an idea behind it. Just putting blocks on the table won't do much. Especially when they are easy to break.

Roman Check board does NOT work with big blocks for orcs. IMO it's is too expensive and unreasonable. The only one who can remotely pull off the full blown Roman check board with big units are Rats.
First echelon are runners 9may be with shooting), then slaves that cost twice as less as gobos and have great LD to boot, so they don't flee involuntarily. Then clan rats and plague monks who will finish off the whittle down units and with M5 can reasonably countercharge. This is a deadly army to come across as it has insane amount of wounds and unshakable leadership and no flanks (its just THAT long).

IMO Infantry heavy Orcs are better of with derivation of Idiot. With having Waaagh, they don't need to wait to get charged, they can charge themselves too. So they can be flexible and unpredictable which totally fits their nature.

***For the record, I run a "Roman Triple line MSU" as my alternative set up. It works with 12 men units, but I have an advantage of having skinks that shoot, Cold-blooded LD and butt load of attacks per small unit of Saurus or Krox.
High Elf can do what I do now btw. Or do their "swinging gate" which I'm still not sure how it works but it seems bloody similar to my triple line.***

Yr ->

Well Gem is good idea then, but it might work great on stubborn white lions but then again, suit yourself ^_^ Phoenix guard also a good candidate as it shouldn't loose by a ton and having gem first and then BSB near by can make it stay when needed. Over all, its tricky, I wouldn't be able to give you 100% best option right of the bat.

Also your princes should never be the ones taking breaking tests on turn they charge. I guess as an insurance, but still I don't know about that...

Good Luck and report more of the battles ^_^

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 24 Jul 2008, 23:27   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: BatRep: High Elves versus Greenskins, 2K.

Orcs do it almost as well, Gobbos are 3 not 4 points, Orcs only cost as much as a Clanrat too and hit harder for when you do hit the baited units. I agree that Black Orc characters are a must in it though.

As for White Lions, they are a fantastic unit. Seriously durable to missile fire which is a huge weakness in the High Elf army, cool models, cool fluff and hit really hard. Stubborn to boot.

Although I have seen very small White Lion screens in conjunction with Swordmasters work very well.
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