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Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?
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Old 23 Mar 2008, 21:06   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

See title - it's what it says on the tin. I am a total beginner to Fantasy Warhammer, although there are elements of 40k I recognise - I assume things like leadership, attacks, wounds, etc. work similar, if not the same way. My only experience with our scaly socialpathic friends is the pre-Lustria rulebook (has it been updated? Bugger if it has), some scenarios and tactica in WD 298 and 305, and a about two regiments of Saurus, now consigned to a box somewhere. I know nothing of the rules.

Any help, any ideas?
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 01:55   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

Quote:
Originally Posted by The Deleter
See title - it's what it says on the tin. I am a total beginner to Fantasy Warhammer, although there are elements of 40k I recognise - I assume things like leadership, attacks, wounds, etc. work similar, if not the same way. My only experience with our scaly socialpathic friends is the pre-Lustria rulebook (has it been updated? K'chau'k if it has), some scenarios and tactica in WD 298 and 305, and a about two regiments of Saurus, now consigned to a box somewhere. I know nothing of the rules.

Any help, any ideas?
Welcome fellow cold-blodded one ;D
fantasy is a LOT more different from 40K firstly. For example, tactics are a lot more important in fantasy than in 40k. In fantasy, if you flank your opponent, you will get a bonus that really helps in close combat and if you strike in the rear, an even better bonus so obviously it will be best to strike your foes there.

There is also the element of magic. I've not played any psychic powers in 40K so I can't say much here. The only thing I can say is that magic is also a very important area in fantasy and even if you don't want to be magic heavy, you need to make sure that you at least have sufficient dispel dices or your toast.( Lizzies have the best mage in the game though ;D but that big toad costs a bomb )

theres also movement differences. For example, a unit in fantasy can move 5 " but he can alsso march to go twice that distance but cannot attack that turn he marches. Then there is also the "cannot march when too near to the enemy "rule ( not sure if I can post the dist here sorry )

Leadership, wounds , attacks are fairly the same UUNLESS you have modifiers or equipment that allows you to add attacks or leadership bounesses. To win combat, same thing. get more points. However, leadership wise, the leadership of some units in the game might be a lot less than an imperial guardsman. Our good skinks are a good example ( again not sure if i can post the actual leadership here ) .

Those differences are just to name a few.

Army wise, the lizzies have solid infantry ( saurus ) and good skirmishes that most people hate to the core due tho them being dirt cheap and still being able to take down a good big monster ( skinks ) . I think http://uk.games-workshop.com/lizardmen/tactica/1/ is a better page that explains about each individual unit as compared to me explaining here.

Overall, I suggest for starters, go get a rulebook and army book. They would make things much easier. Then maybe form an army list and use cardboard to proxy your models so you don't have to spend a bomb so fast and have friendlies with some friends that would play with you.

Good luck!
may the old ones grant you speed in joining the game. we need more of our lizzie brothers more than ever.

p.s: just as side note, I have heard some rumours about the lizzies getting a re-do sometime soon ( could be a year for all I know ) and I bet red_dog has heard them too. link is http://www.pyramidvault.net/forum/viewtopic.php?t=1756 enjoy ;D
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 02:45   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

They also have a particuarly cool army variant known as the Red Host of Tenehuain.

http://ca.games-workshop.com/Communi...ds/redhost.pdf

It suffers some inefficiencies (e.g. the bonus vs. Skaven is really specialized, and Skink Skirmishers don't really benefit from the Spawning of Sotek), yet the new Magic Standards are rather useful (place a Skink Chief with the Skavenpelt banner in a Saurus unit and enjoy the Frenzy), the ability to take mass units of cheap ranked Skinks makes playing speedy armies a viable option, and they replace the Stegadon with the Arcanodon, which is a cheaper unit that sacrifices some extra melee attacks for a fire-on-the-move stone thrower.
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 05:19   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

First advises -> buy/borrow(I would suggest just reading "store copy") a book(s) (rule book & lizzy book). (that the things I will comment now will make sense )

Other then that ->

Our strengths

- Lizardmen has one of the most efficient units across the board. Although we are no Chaos Warriors or other "extreme" examples, we are better per stat/point ratio. The only one who can compete with us in this category are dwarfs.
This allows us to put more extremely tough troops on the board then other armies. Our "rare" saurus (with two spawnings) costs about the same as chaos knight when taken in regiments of 20 with both spawnings. With say quetzl-tepok/Tlazcotl we have T4 3+/4+ armor 2 attacks at S4. Better then chaos knights that cost about the same. Thats just one of the examples of "efficiency". Our Lord is a good one. He is(stat-wise) a Choas Lord with lower I and WS but costs more then 100 less! We are not the best in the mele but we do it for half the price! ^_^ This goes for ALL of our units. Even though we are not a horde we can free up points for items, additional forces etc. because most of our stuff cost less.

- Magic. We are the top magic race to play for if you want incredible magic. (If you count by rough power) Slaan is the magic phase. From "no miscasts" rule to 5 spells from any lores at same time (mixed lore rolling available almost exclusively to us). Our arcane items might be far from plantiful, but with two out of three hitting bulls eye its not bad at all. We have Vertex shard analog on a HERO (HE ripped it off from us, but we still technically better) and diadem of power which is simple GREAT support multipurpose tool. Our Priests maybe small and squishy but they can scout and give LOS for our main wizard (thats reserved exclusively to us ALONE as far as I know) and they are good wizards for the points.
- Scouts department IMO best in the game. From regular skinks to the ultimate chameleon skinks we can take down anything but cavalry and other skirmishers. But if we do face skirmishers We can bring Javelin carrying skinks (same price) that can easily dispatch other skirmishers (throwing weapon is better Vs other skirmishers as suffers less penalty for shooting). So it leave cavalry that we have other means to take down. ^_^ Plus scouts are Extremely annoying if used right.
- Leadership unlike toughness and armor which falls under "efficiency" category, this one deserves a separate notice. Cold blooded rule gives us one of the BEST leadership in the game. And most of our heavy infantry do not need a general around since they have same leadership! General is important for skinks and kroxigors but unless you are taking slaan saurus can act on their own. This means that your expensive troops will rarely run. Even your skinks with this rule are far braver then some things. This rule also gives the biggest possibility of "insane" courage in the game, especially when use with BSB. Even though its not 100% warranty, its still usually better then anyone else can do.

Our "draw backs" ->
- We aren't a horde for sure (unless you go mass skinks, let me tell you -> don't, it makes game boring) and we aren't likely to "outnumber".
- Our magic selection isn't the best for sure. Its not bad, just you can only 'do so much".
- Our cavalry is nerfed, though it can take a GREAT banner that no one in the game has (Hunachi Totem).
- We are not at the "top" of the mele when it come to "face off" things but we can still hold our ground very well. Just look at it with open eyes and don't send your characters on "heroic" missions (except may be a JSOD & FSOD)

Well thats it mate ^_^ read some more stuff and then decide what you want ^_^.

P.S. I build my army pretty cheap, but then again I am a cheap ass and convert a lot. But mainly I've bough a battalion box, skink and saurus box.

Ohh and -> http://www.pyramidvault.net/ Drop by, thats a lizzy forum, a good one too ^_^

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 13:16   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

Maybe from personal experience it makes the game boring but some people like outmaneuvering their foes, cutting them down before they can effectively melee.

A more serious issue with mass skinks however is their low leadership. Should they be charged and choose to flee, they probably won't rally on the first try unless near your general (which could well be the Jaguar Saurus of Death).

Lizardmen have the potential to raise up a rather effective screen of Dispel Dice by giving their heroes the Spawning of Tepok. A Skink Priest with the Spawning would generate 2 dispel at a reasonable price. This doesn't apply however should you be playing a Sacred Spawning Army or the Red Host.

The Red Host is potentially even quicker and deadlier than the average Lizardmen force. The Arcanodon has the potential to really hurt an infantry block if you know how to guess correctly, while still providing a goodly number of impact hits on the countercharge. Red-crested Skinks are truly amazing for their points cost as well. With the proper magic banner, you're looking at 2 attacks/model on the charge, rerolling to wound. Supported by several other units of RCS for flanking bonuses (6" base move means that much more on the charge), with the core unit well-ranked for combat resolution bonuses (let's face it, it's easier to rank up Red-Crested Skinks than it is to rank up Saurus Warriors), you should be able to make individual units flee.
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Old 24 Mar 2008, 18:48   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

Quote:
Maybe from personal experience it makes the game boring but some people like outmaneuvering their foes, cutting them down before they can effectively melee.
Since you operantly don't know this(southlanders) army all to well, this how the "typical" southlanders works -> Slaan & 2 priests smites everyone with their magic while 100+ skinks just jump around the opponent. There might be 4-6 kroxigors that protect the Slaan. Army has no punch and all that "outmaneuvering" means nothing but slowing enemy down.
It doesn't take too much skill to outmaneuver when you have units moving 6'' and everything that is faster then them will get burned by the Slaan's magic.

***Skinks are GREAT at what they do, but they are not by any means a main unit of the army. If you need re-directers, screeners, scouts-harassers/monster hunters/march blockers/warmachine hunters/skirmisher neutralizers -> use skinks. But using them alone IS boring. I love my skinks but I never field LOT of them. in 2k about 40-50 skinks (with chameleons and heroes) is a good point to stop at. Trust me, its more then enough to drive your opponent insane ***

Quote:
Lizardmen have the potential to raise up a rather effective screen of Dispel Dice by giving their heroes the Spawning of Tepok. A Skink Priest with the Spawning would generate 2 dispel at a reasonable price. This doesn't apply however should you be playing a Sacred Spawning Army or the Red Host.
Only southlanders can play "magical defense mayhem" as only they can give preists Tepok spawnings. Normal Lastria can have serious magical defense as it is. In 2k Cube or diadem priest along with unit and a hero or two under tepok will give you enough dispel dice to stop many thing in their tracks. In 3k Both diadem and cube can be taken to stop the really powerful magic armies.

Red Host -> its nice with lots of new ways to play old lizzies ^_^, but its no longer legal on GTs. Though its still debatable, but Lastria and South landers ARE 100% legal and probably will make it in new book. I was thinking of starting Red Host, but then I decided against it. Simple because a possibility of my entire army being "out of the book" scared my wallet.
Edit: And the REAL kicker of Red skinks are not their attacks, but ability to move thru both aquatic and wooden terrain without penalty! Unit of 25 moving thru woods and showing up on the opponents flank/rear is a Great sight ^_^. I hope Red and other sacred Hosts will somehow make it to the next book, then I might build it ^_^ Until then I can only look ^_^

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 12 Apr 2008, 10:05   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

Wow this is all great stuff. I would like to start a Warhammer army in the near future and have the books.

Question

What are JSOD FSOD

thanks
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Old 12 Apr 2008, 18:22   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

JSOD=Jaguar Saurus of Death. A Saurus Scar-vet with Jaguar Charm. Used for quick assassinations.
FSOD=Flying Skink of Death. A Skink Chieftan with Cloak of Feathers. Used for warmachine hunting.
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Old 15 May 2008, 19:35   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

The above combinations are truly amazing.I would advise that you read the tactica both on the GW site and in the back of the lizardmen book. These both have good ideas on which to base your army upon. Also there are many other posts around this forum regarding the same idea as you, so i would advise you to look at them.
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Old 17 May 2008, 05:04   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Starting up Lizardmen - any ideas?

That is a little bit of thread necromancy alilamyman.

But this has been a great thread for starting advice.

Hint: I would like to have seen a Battalion Starter box Army list with pros and cons to weapon set ups.

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