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2K Vampire Counts
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Old 19 Mar 2008, 23:10   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Baltimore, Maryland
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Default 2K Vampire Counts

I'm trying to design a list to be competitive in a tournament setting, tell me what you think.

Vampire Lord
Master of Black Arts
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the Dead
Extra Magic Level
Skull Staff
Flayed Hauberk
Subtotal 440

Vampire 1
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the Dead
Tomb Blade
Subtotal 170

Vampire 2
Master of Black Arts
Staff of Sorcery
Black Periapt
Subtotal 200

Vampire 3
Master of Black Arts
Book of Arkhan
Sword of Battle
Subtotal 200

19 Skeletons
Spears
Command
Subtotal 191

19 Skeletons
Spears
Command
Subtotal 191

20 Zombies 80

5 Dire Wolves 40

18 Grave Guard
Command
Banner of the Barrows
Subtotal 291

5 Black Knights
Barding
Command
Banner of Hellish Vigour
Subtotal 195

Total 1998

Power Dice 16
Dispel Dice 7

Yes, yes it is magic-heavy! I want to be able to utterly out-magic my opponent so hard that they can't possibly stop the sheer number of spells I'm getting off. I like magic-heavy, but I feel I went even a little overboard here (but that's not a bad thing).

Note the lack of dispel scrolls - I know, I know. I wanted to take some, but I thought it would be more appropriate to have a constant advantage in Dispelling magic as opposed to having a small cache of scrolls. I've got +2 to dispel between the Skull Staff and the Staff of Sorcery, and 7 Dispel dice due to all my wizards. I figure that's enough. My lord and Vampire 3 will be in the Grave Guard, and the other 2 Vampires will be split between the Skeletons. The Black Knights will get to march like normal despite distance from Vampires, and the Wolves will start near a Vampire so they get a first-turn march, and then they'll wait to flank an enemy once I'm in combat.

Incidentally, I'm going to go up against Orcs for sure, then possibly High Elves, Lizardmen, Ogres, other Vampire Counts, Wood Elves, Dwarfs, Dark Elves, and a tiny sliver of a chance of Tomb Kings. So yeah, I'm looking for balanced.

Helps please!
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Old 20 Mar 2008, 12:20   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

Looks pretty solid, and the tactics seem sound. I worry about your lord, though, with no Ward save. From the problems I have been having, not having a ward scares me.

No BSB either? I've found them to be almost a must have, especially in a large GG unit with the regen banner.

It looks alright - you are going to dominate the magic phase, so casualties on anything other than the knights isn't a problem, and I never take scrolls anyway
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Old 20 Mar 2008, 17:32   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

Yeah.. you lack a BSB and non of your vampires have sufficient protection. I peronally love the Flayed Hauberk, but in a 2000+ points match, you're bound to face some badass that reduces your ssave to 5+/6+. You're other vampires have no armour at all...
Peronally, I always WANT to some combat badass vampires. It's not the best you can do, but I just can't resist to utterly annihalte my opponents with a Vampire. The Wight King is also an option now he has T5 and W3, he is nearly as hard to kill as a vampire. I mostly arm him with a Flayed Hauberk and the sword of Kings to dispatch of any enemy heavies, but this is peronal preference.

Your army is indeed magic heavy. Oozing out magic is certainly not a bad thing! You might want to add a command to your zombies. Since they can easily be raised from death, it might be better if you take 2 less and insted include a command and raise those 2 lost deathboys later. Your army lacks fast attack though... but this depends on your approach. You have a hard hitting infantry army, but 5 black knights and 5 dire wolves are valuable. When you lose them, you lose an asset of fast flanking. I usually field 7 Knights (or 5 with a character tagging along) and 8 Wolves, so when i lose some, I still have a hard hitting unit to punch the enemy (remember, aslo persenal preference!)

I guess you mostly rely on your magic phase... so take out and hinder hard hitting units and charaters soon, since most of your units won't be able to win against a CC designed regiment. Work as a single unit, use zombie rear attacks and you'll do just fine! (but I'm sure you figured this out aswell)

Magic-heavy VC are probably the better of the options.
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Old 20 Mar 2008, 19:21   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

Great feedback, much thanks. I really appreciate the help.

My Vampires usually don't have too much trouble with the whole dying thing - I'm not entirely sure why that is, but even without armor, I've never lost a game where no vampires have died, though I've never won a game where any have (I've lost one game in which 2 of my Vampires died - other than that, all my Vampires usually live through the whole game). My only real problem with giving my Vamps armor is that it's a lot of extra points on top of already-maxxed-out characters. Most of the characters have hit the 200-point mark and can't take any more gear anyway!

I was kicking around the idea of a Vampire with Hunter in the Dark and Supernatural Horror - a Scouting, Terror-causing Vampire that lives to summon Zombies on the enemy's flank. I decided, however, that I would need to use a Lord for this to be effective, and there is no way I will ever put my General in a compromising situation like that. In 3K I may revisit the idea, but in 2 it's just not worth it. Plus the Tournament I intend to enter this army into is an elimination in which the 3 best players from the store go up against all the other stores in a roughly 17,000 point game, and I don't need every opposing player to go cannon-sniping to remove that kind of thorn in their side - that's also the reason I didn't take a Dragon, it's just too much of a cannon-magnet.

Anyway... Let's say I were to take a heavier Flank, what should I change/Drop/Add to make the idea work? More Knights, and less what?
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Old 21 Mar 2008, 11:45   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

If they don't realy die, you don't need protection huh? And yeah... it's easy to spend too much on your characters. Once when I was designing my 2000 points VC army my 4 Characters costed more than half of the army (which is not a good thing)!

Usually. I take smaller skeleton units (or zombie unit). This will svae you points. With the Lord of the Dead power you can easily raise those skeletons beyond their starting size. You can also choose to turn this around, and have smaller Flanking units of Dire Wolves, which you'll raise with Summon Creatures of Night, although I like the first one better since my character sticks to the infantry units.

The scouting Lord certainly is fun to use. I have 2 different uses for him. Either:
Supernatural Horror, Spectral Form and Hunter in the Dark --> Can't touch this terror causing monster
Supernatural Horror, Hunter in the Dark, Flying Horror --> A flying terrorcausing Vampire... let him hover behind enemy lines and watch them run
Just your basic magic heavy Vampire, he summons zombies around his tableedge, gazes of Nagash a few units and can be a real nuisance.

However, your scouting lord will never be more than that, a nuisance. He won't win you the game, but he will buy you alot of time. If he dies however, you lost a VERY valuable asset so this is a really risky tactic (that's why I prefer flying him behind the enemy lines, the enemy can't shoot/charge what he can't see)

Any further questions? I'm happy to help!
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Old 25 Mar 2008, 13:56   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

Your Vamp with the Staff of Sorcery has two arcane items.

I don't get your banner choices on your Grave Guard and Black Knights. The Black Knights NEED to haveit easier to hit as they need kills to win combats, the Grave Guard dont, plus all they are attacking with is a hand weapon. Not much point in that banner for them really. Id give the Guard 'Dead Legion' or 'Everlasting Death'. The Black Knights will probs be within 12" of a Vamp the first two turns and after that you'll probably be charging anyway.

I'd lose the Spears on the Skellies. They aren't there to get kills, they are there for good solid combat res and you get that with Hand Weapons and Shields [not dying and giving combat res away]. Your Vamps in your units will get you your kills.

It's a decent list, I see it having a hard time in combat though against armies with good leadership.
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Old 25 Mar 2008, 19:19   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
Your Vamp with the Staff of Sorcery has two arcane items.
Oh, is that illegal? (serious question)

Quote:

I don't get your banner choices on your Grave Guard and Black Knights. The Black Knights NEED to haveit easier to hit as they need kills to win combats, the Grave Guard dont, plus all they are attacking with is a hand weapon. Not much point in that banner for them really. Id give the Guard 'Dead Legion' or 'Everlasting Death'. The Black Knights will probs be within 12" of a Vamp the first two turns and after that you'll probably be charging anyway.
No, I played 2 games this weekend and the Black Knights were well out of Vampire range both games. I may give the Guard the Dead Legion banner though, I usually forget about Magic Banners anyway.

Quote:
I'd lose the Spears on the Skellies. They aren't there to get kills, they are there for good solid combat res and you get that with Hand Weapons and Shields [not dying and giving combat res away]. Your Vamps in your units will get you your kills.
My philosphy was that any enemy that's gonna beat my skellies in combat are gonna negate the 4+ armor anyway, or make it a 6+ at best. I picked spears for the extra ability to do wounds at a roughly human-level, which is not insignificantly average. They've served me well so far. Plus, the models with spears are too kick-ass to pass up.

Quote:
It's a decent list, I see it having a hard time in combat though against armies with good leadership.
Meh, I've romped High Elves, I've taken out Ogres, Mortal Khorne, Wood Elves, you name it. I have technically lost to Dwarfs, but because of an incident with rules (neither of us knew them properly, we didn't know unbreakable also meant immune to psychology), and I was a nice guy. I moved my dragon to where I thought his Slayers had run off, only for me to allow them back on the next turn and charge my dragon cuz I'm a nice guy.

By the way, high leadership doesn't matter when you're charged on all four sides by Black Knights, Grave Guard, Zombies and Dire Wolves, which I've done all in one turn to finish off a massacre.

It also doesn't help when 40 Zombies are raised an inch from your lines :funny:
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Old 25 Mar 2008, 20:27   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

Skellies with 4+ armour save? With Light armour and shield it's still 5+ right? Anyway, It also never states in the rulebook that spears are 2 handed weapons, so you can basically equip both shields and spears. And people saying spears are useless are generally wrong. Skeletons are expandable and easily raised, therefor I oftenly equip them as hard as I can and raise a few more later on. And Vanhels Danse Macabre makes thos skeletons 11, reroll strike first attack. At an mediocre strenght of 3, it's bound to kill some models? And models which are dead do not strike back, which saves you some models, and it adds to the CR.

I also never knew 2 arcane items weren't possible Guess I have to drop some Dispel Scrolls from my army xD
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Old 25 Mar 2008, 21:40   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark_Wolfen
Skellies with 4+ armour save? With Light armour and shield it's still 5+ right? Anyway, It also never states in the rulebook that spears are 2 handed weapons, so you can basically equip both shields and spears. And people saying spears are useless are generally wrong. Skeletons are expandable and easily raised, therefor I oftenly equip them as hard as I can and raise a few more later on. And Vanhels Danse Macabre makes thos skeletons 11, reroll strike first attack. At an mediocre strenght of 3, it's bound to kill some models? And models which are dead do not strike back, which saves you some models, and it adds to the CR.

I also never knew 2 arcane items weren't possible Guess I have to drop some Dispel Scrolls from my army xD
You can have as many dispel scrolls as you want per army. That's the only exception.

Hand weapon and shield are +2 to a save, not just +1. Therefore skellies using Hand Weapons get a 4+ save because they have hand weapons, while skellies with spears don't get the extra bonus.

You don't get the second rank of spears on the charge.

You don't get re-rolls with Danse Macabre.

Skellies are good for raising into units of 60 or 80, though, as my foes learn after a turn or 2. And that's no joke.

Quote:
And models which are dead do not strike back, which saves you some models, and it adds to the CR.
My thoughts exactly.
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Old 25 Mar 2008, 21:42   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: 2K Vampire Counts

DW: Multiple common arcane items are allowed, just one army-specific arcane item per model, and one of each type per army. (So only one Peridot, etc.)

On the list, I'd like to face it. Haven't had a shot at the new VC yet, looked at the book though, and it looks like a decent list.
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