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Any success with outriders?
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 23:31   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Any success with outriders?

I'm thinking of getting some Outriders for my Empire force, as the idea of having a Fast Cavalry unit with handguns sounds very useful for dealing with close-combat armies like Chaos or Lizardmen. Has anyone had any success with using them?

It seems that with their range and volume of fire, that in such a scenario they could be used as mobile infantry. Park for a turn, fire, then run when the opponent gets too close for comfort. Would 2 units of 5 Outriders and 2 units of 10 Pistoliers be valid way to use Special Slots in a 2000-pt game?

Plus there's a rallying question. (I have the 6th-ed rulebook, not 7th ed) If a unit rallies in the beginning of the player's turn, can the unit shoot move-or-shoot weapons? Can he move like normal? The idea is to use Fast Cavalry, have them generally flee charges, rally with Musician/Silver Horn, then shoot an overextended opponent.
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 02:25   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Any success with outriders?

I don't take them because:

1) They are a high priority target (due to high firewpoer).
2) They are fragile, with a low save.
3) They can be rmoved easily, and there goes a chunk of your shooting.
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 03:55   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Any success with outriders?

Quote:
Originally Posted by †Methelas†
I don't take them because:

1) They are a high priority target (due to high firewpoer).
2) They are fragile, with a low save.
3) They can be rmoved easily, and there goes a chunk of your shooting.
If Mathhammer says correct, they have better firepower point-for-point than the handgunners and they can bring it to bear more effectively. The issue i'm wondering is how would one protect them from enemy ranged firepower (aside from using magic/artillery/bombs to suppress gunlines armies?)
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 04:30   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Any success with outriders?

Quote:
If Mathhammer says correct, they have better firepower point-for-point than the handgunners and they can bring it to bear more effectively. The issue i'm wondering is how would one protect them from enemy ranged firepower (aside from using magic/artillery/bombs to suppress gunlines armies?)
5 outriders is minimum working unit (never bard them, loss of fast cav is NOT worth that!) for that you will get 13 HG.

Outriders will give you 15 shots, 13 from HG. (They both hit on 5+ at long range and 4+ at short) Thats only 2 shots less with a cost of a special choice and 8 wounds! Thats not something I would take.

However I would say that you can try ONE unit. Potentially narrow front will give them ability to shoot from narrow holes. They can also flee/raly like fast cav when someone charges them and then shoot again! Yes I would say one unit as an experimental run can be used just to try out some moves. ^_^ props for thinking outside the box.

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Old 15 Mar 2008, 05:01   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any success with outriders?

Another question is would it be a feasible idea to get a Hochland Rifle Champion in an Outrider unit? At 42 points for a 5+ save and BS 5 (vs. 75 points for 2 wounds, and BS 4 no save), it appears that the Outrider Champion would be one of the best ways to pick off command units (e.g. enemy Wizards) available to an Empire army.
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 05:34   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Any success with outriders?

Nope, I wouldn't do that. BS5 rifle isn't worth the trouble. Yes its a good way to get BS5, but! Loss of 3 shots from your small unit with cost of MORE points is terrible burden. PLUS, now you will randomize all the fire as there is now 4 models and champion (which isn't 5 models anymore). That drastically increases chances of him dieing. All and all, leave them vanila if you ever plan on using them.

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Old 15 Mar 2008, 19:11   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Any success with outriders?

2 shots actually unless you're considering that a Hochrider costs the same as 2 normal outriders. The idea is that one can stay out of range of most return fire (the exception of course being longbows and warmachines) and use them like assassin units.

I see what you mean about durability. 145 points gets 14 handgunners with no save, and a BS4 sniper champ. 147 gives 5 Outriders and a bs 5 sniper champ. Either could be buffed with ward-saves or plopped in cover. The only advantages the Outriders would have would be the 360* arc, free reform, and ability to better reposition themselves as needed.

How would one advise they be protected from ranged fire, as Empire doesn't have cheap screens for cavalry. Since they are move-or-shoot though, would a sacrificial unit of archers work as a temporary missile screen?
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Old 18 Mar 2008, 14:24   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Any success with outriders?

Depends what you are facing really, if you are up against an army with good magic missiles or a lot of their own fire power, then Outriders will not work. If you are up against a force that will come at you and mainly close combat oriented then they will come in handy. They will thin the enemy numbers and slow their advance by march blocking.
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