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Ogre Kingdom Tactics
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Old 13 Mar 2008, 17:17   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Ogre Kingdom Tactics

Does anyone have any advice if a person were interested in playing Ogre Kingdoms? The idea of a small, fast and elite army appeals to me, and I'm wondering what advice people have acquired over time.

Is using Skrag the Slaughterer cheesy or overpowered because of his ability to mass Gorgers? Is the Scraplauncher worth it? What about the other Ogre armies such as the Ironskins (which allows for Rhinox cavalry and to take Leadbelchers as troops) or all-Gnoblar armies?
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Old 13 Mar 2008, 17:47   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicJuggler
Does anyone have any advice if a person were interested in playing Ogre Kingdoms?
Ogres are a finesse army, which is ironic given their nature. They are monstrously good when well played, but really hard to be well-played.

The link to the Ogre Stronghold should make you verreh happeh. They are masters of their field. They have lots of useful stickies about tried and true tactics and about the questions you ask. And I saw someone field a gnoblar-heavy army recently - like very very very heavy.
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Old 13 Mar 2008, 19:27   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

Well, Ogres are certainly a small, fast and elite army...

Ogres aren't actually much different from other armies. People think that because Ogres have such few models they are significantly different from other races, but just think of every 1 Ogre as 3 normal models and the differences are minimized very quickly. We have a few Ogre Kingdoms players at our shop, all of which are decent at the least, and they don't hide their secrets, so I know a good deal about Ogres.

First off is Ogre magic. Ogres aren't a magic-heavy army, and shouldn't be played as such, but their magic is pretty unique. For instance, Ogres don't have a limit on how many remains-in-play spells they can have. The only limitation is that each unit can only have one affecting them at a time. So, Ogre Kingdoms armies can cast multiple remains-in-play spells from a single Butcher in one turn. Plus, Gut Magic spells can generally be cast on one die, a luxury most other armies don't enjoy. Using magic well makes for a much tougher time for your opponents, particularly Undead when you get off the extra toughness and stubborn one. However, be aware that your magic will be dispelled a lot. When it's cast, if it only goes on one die the opponent certainly won't need more than two to ensure it's dispelled. If they want, they can even dispel it in their OWN magic phase using leftover power dice.

Next from a combat standpoint. Ogres aren't meant to be in large units, usually a unit of 3 is enough for any job that needs doing. Some people go for 4 if the unit is REALLY important and needs to get into a fight in one piece. Remember that each Ogre should be roughly equated to 3 normal models, just with a higher toughness and strength and worse save. The difference, however, is that each Ogre is greater than the sum of its parts - even when Ogres do take a couple of casualties, it takes a full 3 wounds to down even the weakest. This means that until 3 wounds are dealt there is no modification in unit strength or number of attacks, so even if an opponent deals 2 wounds, they may as well not have touched you, and you get your full complement of attacks back. And, always remember that Bull Rush! Keep units strong and at a decent distance from enemies so you always get that!

Finally, there are the characters. Ogre Kingdoms Melee fighters are disgustingly strong, making the Characters of most other races run for cover behind their large units of weak models. Even Butchers are more than capable of holding their own in a slugfest, much like the Vampires, they can fight well, and possess the ability to use magic. Basically, accept challenges when they're issued, but don't issue any yourself so you can clobber the unit that you're up against.

That's my best, someone else may be able to explain them better and offer more tactical advice.
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 08:46   #4 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

Well, I play Ogres, and have had a fair bit of success with them as an army. They are a difficult army to play, but once you get used to them, they can be deadly. (Much like the Dark Eldar in 40K).
They aren't very open to abuse, so it certainly isn't a powergame army, if you're a person who likes that kinda thing. The Ogre Stronghold is much reccommended. Very friendly and helpful community who really know their stuff.

I would say that Ogres are best played as a fairly magic-heavy army. A Tyrant and three butchers tends to be the most efficient 2000 point hero sort. 6PD may not seem magic heavy compared to other armies, though, but its magic-heavy for OK.

Skragg is a brilliant character, and, imo, the only OK character worth fielding. Ghark is unusable in tournaments, and Greasus is useless, pretty much, especially since you need at least 3000 point to field him.
If you overload on Gorgers in a Skragg army, chances are the you probably won't do too well. The problem comes when you realise that there isn't that many Ogres on the field at the beginning, and chances of your Gorgers coming on when you want them are irritating, at least. I'd say around 4 is enough in a Skragg army. 2 for a normal 2000 point is generally the usage they get.

Core units...
Bulls are below par. Mot use them as a Bait and flee unit. The great tactical thing about bulls is that, while they arn't amazing, they can't be ignored. This can be used to drag your opponent into difficult situations.
Ironguts are the most useful unit in the army list. Most players field about 4 units of 3 in a 2000 point list.

Hope that helped somewhat.
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 19:40   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

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Originally Posted by XV18
Core units...
Bulls are below par. Mot use them as a Bait and flee unit. The great tactical thing about bulls is that, while they arn't amazing, they can't be ignored. This can be used to drag your opponent into difficult situations.
Ironguts are the most useful unit in the army list. Most players field about 4 units of 3 in a 2000 point list.
Most people min-max them: they assume Bulls are mostly throw-away and take the absolute minimum to get the Ironguts on the field (there's a restriction there). It's all about feinting and drawing out units to get people into your traps. Flee, marchblock with gnoblars, hit with gorgers, remember you cause Fear... it looks like it should be a muscle army, but it's actually a finesse one, perhaps the MOST finesse one in the entire game. I came to Ogres thinking, "big smash!" and found out, well, it's not at all big smash unless you manoeuvre the enemy just right. Pretend you are trying to survive a zombie invasion with a handful of people with guns and that's just about the right metaphor. Get 'em in the killing zone and turn on the chainsaw, but if they get you off-kilter, you're in trouble.

And the slavegiant is such a waste... he's not nearly as fun as a regular one. :-(
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 22:15   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

I noticed the neutered rules, plus the rare slots could be used for better choices like Gorgers or Galloper Guns.

I've heard some units suck outright while others are more worth it than others. For instance, most people I've spoken with do not recommend the Ogre Hunter, but recommend Leadbelchers for anti-light cavalry duty. Also, has anyone had success using the Scraplauncher, or is 3 Leadbelchers generally a better investment?
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Old 14 Mar 2008, 22:17   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

Take adavantage of the Bull Charge.

I played someone who hesitated a Bull Charge and got flanked by me Inner Circle Knights and charged in the front with a black of 20 Spears.
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Old 15 Mar 2008, 01:49   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

Quote:
Originally Posted by MagicJuggler
For instance, most people I've spoken with do not recommend the Ogre Hunter, but recommend Leadbelchers for anti-light cavalry duty. Also, has anyone had success using the Scraplauncher, or is 3 Leadbelchers generally a better investment?
That's a polite non-endorsement of the total uselessness of huntards. LOL.

Leadbelchers 2 or rarely 3 is what I see... half of which is that the Scraplauncher is totally IMPOSSIBLE to build. People have quit OK after trying to build one, it's so aggravating.
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Old 16 Mar 2008, 11:23   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

Scraplaunchers vs. Elves and Humans. You hit those RnF blocks with a big killing blow template and its very pretty to watch. Otherwise, not so much. I've had a bit of success against them, and they're always a good laugh to play with in an army.

I've never had much luck with Leadbelchers personally (Keep on rolling those misfires...) but quite a few other Ogre players I know have.
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Old 16 Mar 2008, 14:16   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Ogre Kingdom Tactics

I had a feeling that Toothcracker or Trollguts would work well on Leadbelchers (min size 13...probability of rolling 1 misfires 1 in 36), because the increased toughness would reduce damage taken from a misfire...
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