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House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 11:04   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

40K has Apocalypse, so why not build a similar system for Fantasy?

I know lots of people dislike Apocalypse for various reasons... so that's just a reason to make it work for Fantasy.

I know Fantasy already has the escalating FOC to play bigger battles so you get more Lord and Rare choices, but I'm thinking it'd be fun to build on that. Huge dragons and cannons that use the big templates, Level 5 and 6 wizards with additional spells powerful enough to decimate (I mean it like that) detachments - perhaps call these units "Epic" units that you can only have one of per 4,000 points?

There's things like the War Mammoth and the Forge World Greater Daemons, as well as Forge World dragons that could be used on this scale. There's plenty of cool things, I think, that could be used for all races - remember the giant mole that Alessio wanted to put in the Skaven book? Or a huge Doomwheel. The Empire could have a Steam Fortress, the Orks could have wicker man-esque effigies of Gork and Mork that act as a bizarre mix between Titan and siege tower. Let's not forget Dwarf dirigibles!

And of course, strategic assets - perhaps tied into magic or other things. A massed naval broadside striking the battlefield? Summoning the rest of your army onto the board by arcane means?

Does anybody other than me think this'd be quite good fun?
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 11:16   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

If done right, this could be utterly amazing. If done like Apocolypse, it will dishonour the parent game.

While I think the idea of massive templates and lvl5 and 6 mages could be good, one of Apoc's biggest failings is that the units are undercosted, and using incompatible rules, something I would not want to see in a fantasy massive battle.
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 11:21   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

This is why we need to price them right and make compatible rules my friend =)
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Well I'd rather not play the game at all than play it like they did! :P
Crikey! This crazy clown causes commotion like the coming of Christ. Contained in a circle corrupted by crackheads and carnal cravings, he creates no concession to callous cheaters concentrating on nought but cock. Certainly, still a curious and cordial cavalier in the countenance of crazed cads, curs and creeps who condemn courtesy as something corny. No cloud could collapse his crushing crescendo of comical crowing and crimson coiffure. This conjecture on culture comes circumlocutive, consequently...

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Old 06 Mar 2008, 11:24   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

Warhammer really does not lend itself to this. Apocalypse was a piss-poor attempt to create a 40K-scale alternative to Epic. Warhammer already has Warmaster. That does a good job of representing truly epic conflicts.

I do not see any way to do this. Warhammer is great because it is free of needless stupidity, which is exactly what GW pumps into each of its 40K "Expansions". Strategems, be they in Cities of Death or Apocalypse, are just a poor man's attempt at originality.


Forgeworld units can already be used anyway. Most of them are balanced by the fact they take up most of a 2,000pt army, so no matter how big or scary they are, the enemy can point half a dozen Cannons at them and wipe them out. That, or destroy them through Combat Resolution.


Finally, you're looking at completely the wrong end. Warhammer is about the rank and file. Throwing bigger and bigger things in just spoils the game. There is a reason 3 is the basic stat value in Warhammer, yet magically 4-5 is the norm in 40K.
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 14:40   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

I have to agree with wargamer.

The game sadly is drifting away from the rank and file infantry as it is, no need to even further this sad development.

And no massive templates! >
This is not 40k and we all love it for this very reason. So keep those things off the fantasy tables!

They would just result in less infantry played as it is.

All in all the entire concept of "giant war engines", "giant monster" (dragons seemingly are not enough : ), "wizards that level armies", "weapons of mass destruction" and so on screw the theme behind fantasy:beating enemy units in combat by clever use of the won resources and strategic movement. NOT just blowing entire units from the table by rolling 2 dice.

Gamewise it just takes away the combat and replaces it with 40k-esque shooting orgies.

And why would we need even bigger monsters? The "common" dragon is banned from most tournaments because of his game-winning capabilities. Playing 4000-5000 points and having one or two of those is already a sight to behold.

All in all we have the "growing" FOC, we already have monsters and spells that scare the heck out of most things (dragons, slann, special characters from hell, greater demons, the list goes on), so all that would be nice to add are scenarios.

And since we are all a bunch of smart and creative guys we will surely be able to come up with some exciting scenarios that combine fluff and reasonable rules.

Greetz, Trogdor
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 15:09   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

I wish 40k was more Fantasy-style combat oriented. It suffers badly from inflation. I find small combats in 40k much more satisfying in terms of their lethality and strategy needs, although they are very badly balanced lists...
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 15:12   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

I think the only way to really make a largescale fantasy game would be to make a siege variant (which we already have...) as fantasy armies generally lend themselves to being quite large. We typically play at around 3k fantasy - mine has 130 odd basic models, some cavalry etc. Even when we have run mega battles, the superior ruleset has handled it with ease.
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Old 06 Mar 2008, 15:22   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: House Rules Project: Warhammer Armageddon

BRING BACK MAN-O-WAR!!! Oh whoops...that said, naval combat would be something I would like to see better covered in Fantasy as it could make for an interesting game of amphibious assault (naval siege of Marienburg maybe?).

And why not 5th/6th level wizards? Bring back Death Spasm, and Purple Sun of Xereus and other insane spells. Add epic items like the Heart of Woe. Make Fantasy Fantasy again!
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