[Kaffl]

Well, I've decided to put up a 2K army list for approval/disapproval. As it is at the moment it numbers only 65 models, but let me go back and change it a little real quick... Ok, I'm done changing. No, I didn't put any more models in actually, I ended up swapping items around. The point of this list will become apparant once I explain it to you.

Vampire Lord 415
Master of the Black Arts
Dark Acolyte
Blood Drinker
Book of Arkhan
Level 3

Vampire 300
Master of the Black Arts
Battle Standard Bearer
Drakenhof Banner

Vampire 170
Dark Acolyte
Lord of the Dead
Tomb Blade


Necromancer 210
Invocation of Nehek
Raise Dead
Vanhels Danse Macabre
Sceptre de Noirot
Corpse Cart
Unholy Lodestone

Skeletons X 15 180
Command
War Banner
Spears

Crypt Ghouls X 10 80

Zombies X 20 80

Grave Guard X 20 295
Command
Banner of the Dead Legion

Varghulf 175

TOTAL: 2005
Power Dice: 14
Dispel Dice: 7

Here's the deal - this army is based on being indestructible. I know the model count is low, but the point is that between the magic that the army practically oozes and the magical items that keep or replenish troops, our units aren't going anywhere. The Lord and the BSB are going in one unit (the Grave Guard) to form the uber killy nigh-undefeatable Grave Guard I've become fond of. It's 955 points for that one unit in the end (oh God, I'm really asking for it) but it's oh so worth it. The other Vamp is going in with the Skeletons, and will raise more to get them to full strength (I pulled 10 of them out to save points, I figure 15 points and raise them to full strength is better than the 88 points it'd take to start them there). The Zombies are filler, and the Crypt Ghouls are good for hitting something once REALLY hard, then dying. But for 80 points, who am I to complain?

Anyway, it's slim in the models department, but someone other than me ought to give this one a go. It may seem weak at first glance, but that kind of overpowering magic means you'll end up outnumbering the enemy by second or third turn, and then it's all over.

By the way, with properly weighted dice and properly unlucky opponents this list can raise 140 Zombies per turn, and a max of 840 Zombies in one game. See? Told you you'll outnumber the opponent in no time!

EDIT: There was a little fib in here, I had one more power die listed than I payed for. I fixed it, but it cost me 5 more skeletons (I'm still not worried about it - 1st turn I'll be up to 30 skellies anyway, with power dice left over).

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

Well, I would advise dropping the spears - Skellies aren't gonne kill much, and the extra armour save is better to make sure you win combat res.

I like you characters (other than the necro - I don't like them myself) and you have a monster amount of power (more than my 3k list!).

No Coach? They are sick in the new rules, I ain't ever leaving Waldenhof without one now.

I too use the Invincible GG unit - Vamp, Wight King BsB with regen flag, it can be sickening - in a game where nearly everything died, my GG were hit in the flank and still holding on at full strength - he couldn't touch them, even with flank.

Looks pretty solid, but only a game will tell. Does look small on numbers, which makes me shiver in my coffin, as our biggest strength is our minions, but you seem to have that under control with the magic.

Good luck, the list looks good, and the magic is gonna make you opponent cry

[Kaffl]

Originally Posted by Rafe

Well, I would advise dropping the spears - Skellies aren't gonne kill much, and the extra armour save is better to make sure you win combat res.

Well, I certainly see the point in your argument. Skeletons are not among the most powerful of undead constructs. However, they are average strength and so I do expect some killing potential out of them. I'm not 100% sure if you get the extra rank of spears if you charge, but even if I stay still the Corpse Cart has the Miasma spell that says "I strike first in combat until my next magic phase", so I will get much use out of those spears. As far as the extra save goes, I'm not so much interested in a 4+ save as opposed to a 5+ save, because the Vampire in the unit will be raising more and more and more every turn. In fact, I expect to produce an excess of skeletons.

Originally Posted by Rafe

I like you characters (other than the necro - I don't like them myself) and you have a monster amount of power (more than my 3k list!).

Well, I like the fact that most of the characters pull double duty as fighters and casters. I'm told constantly that the strength of undead armies comes from their characters, so I took that to heart when I made this list. I was solely interested in characters and my Grave Guard when I made the list, the other units mean nothing to me but ablative wounds for my characters.

I think Necros are limited as well, but honestly I took this one for the Corpse Cart, and the fact that it will always have the Danse Macabre (I'm not about to take the risk of not having a character with that spell!) It's going to provide as much support magic as it can, raising and reinforcing units and using all the Corpse Cart's abilities to bolster my magic.

Originally Posted by Rafe

No Coach? They are sick in the new rules, I ain't ever leaving Waldenhof without one now.

I haven't got the model, and besides, I don't need something sucking my power dice away. It's a double-edged sword, and I'd only use it if I thought I had extra magic to spare (understand that I use every power die every turn - nothing goes to waste).

Originally Posted by Rafe

I too use the Invincible GG unit - Vamp, Wight King BsB with regen flag, it can be sickening - in a game where nearly everything died, my GG were hit in the flank and still holding on at full strength - he couldn't touch them, even with flank.

Is this the same unit detailed by me, or did you come up with this one on your own? I'd love to say I influenced somebody to try it, but I won't take credit if you had the thought on your own. And just remember - you can take Regens against combat res wounds! I assume if the Grave Guard held at full strength you knew this, but anyone else who reads might like to know that. The secret with this unit is to not get danced around, which is what will usually happen. I deploy everything in a nice block, so if I get charged by anything anywhere I'm close enough to Danse Macabre into whatever charged me.

Originally Posted by Rafe

Looks pretty solid, but only a game will tell. Does look small on numbers, which makes me shiver in my coffin, as our biggest strength is our minions, but you seem to have that under control with the magic.

Good luck, the list looks good, and the magic is gonna make you opponent cry

Well, the numbers actually dropped in my last revision. I understand that without numbers Vamp Counts are put at a big disadvantage, but in my mind the magic my army wields totally offsets that. Even Dwarfs will feel my magic, it's just not stoppable at this points value. Another big thing is my Characters will not change 'till 3K, which is why they're so expensive. All my remaining 995 points till 3K will be spent on normal units, not Characters.

And yes, I intend for my magic to make people cry. Now that we've unofficially got the best casters, I'm gonna take advantage of them!

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

Is this the same unit detailed by me, or did you come up with this one on your own? I'd love to say I influenced somebody to try it, but I won't take credit if you had the thought on your own. And just remember - you can take Regens against combat res wounds! I assume if the Grave Guard held at full strength you knew this, but anyone else who reads might like to know that. The secret with this unit is to not get danced around, which is what will usually happen. I deploy everything in a nice block, so if I get charged by anything anywhere I'm close enough to Danse Macabre into whatever charged me.

Would love to take credit, but it was a combination of forum talk before I got the book that sold me. The minute I head of regeneration, it was just... wow.

so I will get much use out of those spears. As far as the extra save goes, I'm not so much interested in a 4+ save as opposed to a 5+ save, because the Vampire in the unit will be raising more and more and more every turn. In fact, I expect to produce an excess of skeletons.

Ah but the extra save helps you avoid taking casualties, which means you are more likely to win combat - and if you win, and outnumber, only Sparta will save them (Our club calls Insane Courage the "THIS IS SPARTA!" rule) from fleeing. Yes the casualties you take a inconsequential, but you want to win the combats.

[Kaffl]

Originally Posted by Rafe

Ah but the extra save helps you avoid taking casualties, which means you are more likely to win combat - and if you win, and outnumber, only Sparta will save them (Our club calls Insane Courage the "THIS IS SPARTA!" rule) from fleeing. Yes the casualties you take a inconsequential, but you want to win the combats.

All very true, but that's why I have the spears. I will Strike First once I've run my opponent out of dispel dice, and the fact that I get to fight in 2 ranks means that not only will I be dealing casualties, thus helping to win the combat, but less opponents get to attack back. In my book, less enemies attacking is better than making an armor save. Of course, this does cost extra points and only really works well if you are striking first, so if you don't think you'll be able to get the magic off or if you really need the points then I can see dropping the spears. Personally I just like them, and they're new to me (my Empire army always used Swordsmen, I wanna shake things up a little).

[ForbiddenKnowledge]

I admit, I prefer the look of spears. As I've gone for a State Army of Sylvania style, spears seem much more "official" than a horde with hand weapons.