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Grand Army of Waldenhof Keep, 3k new Vampire Counts, Legal and everything :D
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Old 21 Feb 2008, 10:38   #1 (permalink)
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Default Grand Army of Waldenhof Keep, 3k new Vampire Counts, Legal and everything :D

Right, thanks to the sterling advice of the people here, and some deep meditations on life, the universe and everything, I have reorganised the list so its a bit more, well, legal
I'm pleased with the characters, in two turns of good casting, I could feasibly double the size of the army.

Anyway, the list:

Characters
Viktor von Carstein, Lord of Waldenhof
Vampire Lord on Nightmare
Extra Level, Dark Acolyte, Walking Death, Lord of the Dead, Infinate Hatred, Sword of Might, Sceptre de Noirot, Walachs Bloody Hauberk

455pts.

Lady Sophia sur Lac von Carstein, Daughter-in-Darkness of Viktor.
Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Biting Blade, Nightshroud, Talisman of Protection

185pts

Erik von Carstein, Son-in-Darkness of Viktor.
Vampire, Dark Acolyte, Lord of the Dead, Flayed Hauberk, Tomb Blade

195pts

Kahn, Captain of the Waldenhof Guard
Wight King, Battle Standard, Waldenhof (as Drackenhof) Standard

225pts


Core

Guard of the Inner Keep
25 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command, War Banner

245pts

Wardens of the Gate
25 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command, Banner of Hellfire

230pts

Nephilim Guard
25 Skeleton Warriors, Full Command,

220pts

20 Zombies, Command

92pts

6 Dire Wolves

48

6 Dire Wolves

48

Corpse Cart
Balefire

100pts

Special

The Waldenhof Guard
18 Grave Guard, Full Command

246pts

Waldenhof Templars
9 Black Knights, Full Command, Barding, Banner of the Barrows

337pts

Rare

Vargulf

Edited, just in case

Black Coach

Edited, just in case

Total: 3001pts
Character Total: 1060pts
Core Total: 983pts
Special Total: 583pts
Rare Total: 375pts

This list gives 10 power dice a turn, and six dispel.

I'm happy with my characters, and I want to try and stay clear of the more, uncivilised troops, as this army is a continuation of my Army of Sylvania army, representing state troops rather than a normal undead horde (although I miss my crossbows, and my living troops)

So, better? Worse? At least its now legal :
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Old 21 Feb 2008, 19:30   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: 3k New Vampire Counts - Grand Army of Waldenhof

Would this 3K happen to include 5 Vampires? Of the Arkayne persuasion, possibly? If so, I already approve ;D

Let's see, in 3K... Maybe 3 Vamps, 2 Necros riding Corpse Carts... How many free Special slots? Fill 'em with Black Knights (Oh my GOD, the new Black Knights are HIDEOUSLY broken! Not the Blood Knights, mind you, though they are cool, but... The new Black Knights make me quiver - for movement purposes only they count as being Ethereal, so are not slowed by terrain, ever!), and maybe some Grave Guard. Gotta love Wights. Then a couple Varghulfs and some Cairn Wraiths, AKA the best screen ever made. Can block line of sight to 4 units, and are Ethereal! Granted, they're expensive, but that makes up for the Vamp Count's lack of shooting!

Psst... By the way... Take Dark Acolyte on hero-level Vampires... Not the one that gives you an entire lore... Knowing every spell is useless if you can't cast half of them...
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 08:32   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 3k New Vampire Counts - Grand Army of Waldenhof

Will post the new, vastly improved list in a couple of hours.

Basically 3 vamps, 1 wight BSB, 75 skellies, 20 GG, 9 Black Knights, CC, Coach, Varghulf etc.

I did think 10 casting dice was nice, until I saw a list with 17.....
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[quote]Thou shalt not crave thy neighbour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim.
Rafe is damn sexy once he gets into his night attire.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 11:36   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Grand Army of Waldenhof Keep, 3k new Vampire Counts, Legal and everything :D

That's a really nice list. You did a lot of things I would've done, too, like giving Dark Acolyte to all the characters that can use it.

I'm assuming you left two spots in the Grave Guard unit open, one for the Wight King and one for a Vampire so they can march?

One thing I noticed is you didn't give the Grave Guard a magic standard... Banner of the Barrows is just too good to pass up! Assuming it's the one I'm thinking of (I won't have my army book till later today) it opens up the possibility to hit on 2's in close combat. Granted, that won't often be the case (are Grave Guard weapon skill 4? I forget), but hitting on 3's against most everything would be REALLY nice. That, and now you can raise Grave Guard from the dead, which makes them doubly strong in my opinion.

And in 3K it's conceivable to have 23 power dice by giving all the vampires the +2 power dice power. It's hard to choose between that and the extra level on Lord choices, though, as level 3 means you can use 4 dice to cast a spell, and I've never used more than 4 dice to cast ANY spell before. On hero choices, though, I'd always go for the extra level, only using 2 dice to cast a spell is very restricting.

One thing I'm iffy about is starting with Zombies on the table. I mean, you have the Sceptre de Noirot, so you're raising 2 ranks of Zombies with Raise Dead anyway, and theoretically you can raise 2 ranks with every Invocation afterwards (the Zombie special rule says you get d6+4 Zombies from Invocation). I would personally NEVER start a game with any Zombies on the table, simply because they're slow and terrible at fighting, but great at dying again. I'd just assume summon them on a flank and Book of Arkhan 'em on into combat. Nobody expects the Book the first time you use it! Just don't roll a 1.

But that's just my opinion, and a lot of people play Vampire Counts in different ways (some people disdain Zombies, some people love them, some people don't use magic, some people can't get enough!). Plus, if you drop the Zombies you can put a Necromancer on that Corpse Cart... You have the Character slot open (you can have 5 characters in 3K, right?) and dropping the Zombies will give you the points. Then just summon the Zombies again with your new Necromancer! The Necromancer is the guy skewering the corpse, by the way. They gave you the model for it. In case you didn't realize this right away, I know it took me a while to figure it out.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 12:43   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grand Army of Waldenhof Keep, 3k new Vampire Counts, Legal and everything :D

Quote:
I'm assuming you left two spots in the Grave Guard unit open, one for the Wight King and one for a Vampire so they can march?

Yeah, Sophia and Kahn will take this unit, really able to dish out the hurt on the charge, and take it too, thanks to the BSB. Not to mention, with Sophia striking before anyone, and the sheer nastyness of Wight kings now, this unit will put out serious hurt.

Quote:
One thing I noticed is you didn't give the Grave Guard a magic standard... Banner of the Barrows is just too good to pass up! Assuming it's the one I'm thinking of (I won't have my army book till later today) it opens up the possibility to hit on 2's in close combat. Granted, that won't often be the case (are Grave Guard weapon skill 4? I forget), but hitting on 3's against most everything would be REALLY nice. That, and now you can raise Grave Guard from the dead, which makes them doubly strong in my opinion.
Simple answer? Points. Wanted to give them Screaming Banner, but the points were just too tight. Could always take the warbanner off the skellies, but this unit is nasty enough Banner of the Barrows is on the Black Knights, as they hit harder, so I want to get the hits in.

Quote:
One thing I'm iffy about is starting with Zombies on the table. I mean, you have the Sceptre de Noirot, so you're raising 2 ranks of Zombies with Raise Dead anyway
Again, simple answer was that I needed to fill out the legal core requirements. I'm not a fan of starting with Zombies, prefer to raise them, but at the same time, its not costly, and it was either that of a piss all unit of skellies (not wanting ghouls either).

Quote:
Plus, if you drop the Zombies you can put a Necromancer on that Corpse Cart
Don't take Necromancers. For one, they don't fit the fluff of a proper Sylvanian Army, and secondly I prefer Vampires. So that rules them out.

I think I'm happy with it now, gotta a 3k battle against HE on monday, so we shall see how we do - not scared of ASF, because I can raise so many models
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[quote]Thou shalt not crave thy neighbour

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tim.
Rafe is damn sexy once he gets into his night attire.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 17:08   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Grand Army of Waldenhof Keep, 3k new Vampire Counts, Legal and everything :D

Yeah, points can be obnoxious. I never looked to see if the list had all the compulsory Core units, but I assumed with 3 skellie units you were fine. I just forgot that 3K demands 4 Core units. I never looked at Wight Kings in the new book, honestly, but maybe I should if they're as good as you say they are.

I'm getting my Spearhead in about an hour or so, so I'll check out the new stuff with... Ahem... *Hellish Vigour*. Anyhoo, hope your game goes well. I've got some Vampire Counts Megabattle thing happening tomorrow, so hopefully I can get that Spearhead put together tonight.

Sayonara Nosferatu.
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Old 22 Feb 2008, 20:52   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grand Army of Waldenhof Keep, 3k new Vampire Counts, Legal and everything :D

Considering their new toughness, and wounds, they can take a hell of a beating, and still hit back with Killing Blow. They are cheap as well, if it wasn't for the way the new magic works (which, BTW, I actually think is damn good - its just you want a good chunk) I'd take another in a second.
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[quote]Thou shalt not crave thy neighbour

Quote:
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Rafe is damn sexy once he gets into his night attire.
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Old 25 Feb 2008, 00:25   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Grand Army of Waldenhof Keep, 3k new Vampire Counts, Legal and everything :D

Wights... What can I say? Broken? Maybe not... But really, REALLY strong. Maybe it also depends on how you take them. Vamp Counts in general? Ungodly strong. Let me divulge to you what happened in our megabattle.

3 tables were all connected, all of which had a special objective worth one victory point. Also there was one supreme commander on each side of the table worth 3 victory points if killed. The living side had Orion, and the undead side, well... We had Nagash! We found rules updated for the last army book, and we just tweaked them a little. Plus we had a kick-ass model for him - it's the size of a Bone Giant, but it looks like a caster all the same. It had some neat spells, but was underpowered really (one of the powers was essentially Summon Undead Horde, but cast on a 19+ instead of a 12+ and raised an extra 5 Zombies). Considering any caster can do that on 12+, not so amazing. But at least it was good at Close Combat too.

Long story short, 2 of the 3 tables were entirely purged of anything living, and the 3rd table was fought to a stalemate, with a slight advantage to the Undead despite being outnumbered roughly 3-to-1 points wise. To be clear, only 3 players on the Undead side were actually playing Undead, and only 2 were Vampire Counts. Despite this making up probably about 1/3 of the points in just Counts alone, we still had about 4,000 points of Lizardmen on the battlefield (holding their own against close to 6,000 points of High Elves and Beasts of Chaos with virtually no support) and almost 2,000 points of undead Ogres. Points wise, I think the Undead were worse off, but with probably 6,000 points of Vamps on the table, it did feel like Undead vs living. Besides, Lord Kroak is undead.

That being said, I felt it was a fair test of the new Counts. I have deduced many things. Firstly, Wind of Death will cause opponents to use dispel scrolls no matter what it goes off on, because NOBODY wants to stop and roll for every enemy unit on the table. I did get it off once, however, and duly created 4 Spirit Hosts to run rampant across the tables. Secondly, never charge an Eternal Guard if it can be helped. They hurt, and with the proper Lord are leadership 10 and stubborn. We had Grave Guard with a Vamp Lord on the front, Skeletons with Mannfred the Acolyte on a flank, Black Knights on a flank, and Zombies on the rear. The Eternal Guard had to be killed to a man, and the Grave Guard would have been killed 3 times over if not for the abundance of nearby casters. It took 4 full turns to kill them all.

Next, Black Knights. Black Knights deserve all the amazement the Blood Knights get, as they became the most valuable units in the game. Moving fast means that, if enemy units are clumped close together, when enemies fail fear checks and run off the new charges you declare could cause other units to run off as well. Fear certainly played its part in this game.

For those wondering, Nagash Himself is hideously terrifyingly underwhelming. When not failing to cast spells, he likes to roll an eight on 5 dice and only summon 13 Zombies. I beat him, however, by rolling a 7 on five dice!

So anyway, I'll give a full assessment in a new topic. Sorry for jacking your thread!!!
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