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Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves
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Old 06 Feb 2008, 00:45   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Hey. I am planning on jumping into warhammer fantasy in the next few months, and am having trouble between Tomv kings or wood elves for my first army.

I heard tombs kings are hard, but I am looking for a challenge.

And wood elves are just plain awesome.

Can someone help me compare the two? I know very little about each.
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Old 06 Feb 2008, 03:59   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Well, I am not going to advocate WE (simple because there have been to many wooden spirit builds and such lately) as they mostly known.

For Tomb Kings. I wouldn't say that they are too difficult. They can build one of the best gunlines across the board. However I am in NO way supporting that! Few real things that are going for them ->

- One of the most unstoppable magic "lores" ever. They don't miscast and all spells are bound. They are REALLY hard to stop.
- "Coming back" is great especially when its that easy. You can't "up the limit" of the unit, but it doesn't make a difference really.
- Great shooting support. Hitting on 5+ always and some nice warmachines is a great way to support your advance.
- Having pretty good Chariots, and combined with "incanation" of urgency, can be lethal.
- Few "under ground units" are priceless for taking out opponents warmachines and other things "in the back" or just generally supporting your troops.

Ok so there is Lot more to it ^_^ but you can look that over on the net or in the codex itself.


Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 17 Feb 2008, 18:56   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

No offense, but in small battles, Tomb Kings are terrible. If you lose your lich priest, there is a really good chance your army will just crumble away. I literally just started Wood Elves (by just started I mean I got the codex, 2 spell singers, and I ordered the spear head.) and everyone says they are cheesey, which to me means they are good. It really depends on what type of tactics you would like to play with and what you are looking for in an army. Tomb kings seem like they would be really hard to personalize too much, but on the plus side, easier to paint. Wood elves can have a lot of different schemes, but are harder to paint.
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Old 18 Feb 2008, 01:12   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Well, for once you can take a casket at ANY level and no one brings magic defense in <1000. Thats with a naked prince is 380. Put prince on chariot, and get some chariots and skelies archers (and some for casket protection) and you have 1000 points. Whatever might opponent have, he will have problems Vs Casket. Plus you can still have "raising power" to bring back skelies.

Quote:
everyone says they are cheesey, which to me means they are good.
: Just because some people call them cheesy doesn't make them so. There are few ways that woodies are played that people hate. But people deal with it and still manage to break them.

Quote:
Tomb kings seem like they would be really hard to personalize too much
I would say that this is one statement you haven't thought thru. Tomb kings can be configured in numerous ways just like any other warhammer army. They can build everything from gun line to full frontal assault. I've already named quit e few of their strengths.

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 18 Feb 2008, 20:38   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Red_dog

Quote:
Tomb kings seem like they would be really hard to personalize too much
I would say that this is one statement you haven't thought thru. Tomb kings can be configured in numerous ways just like any other warhammer army. They can build everything from gun line to full frontal assault. I've already named quit e few of their strengths.

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
Sorry, should have been more specific. The modelling aspects are less customizable for Tomb kings. You can't really paint them many different ways. They have a sheild and weapon that you can custumize, whereas you can paint wood elves entirely different. Both armies have great strengths, just depending on what you like. How do you play?
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Old 20 Feb 2008, 01:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Tomb Kings and Wood Elves are entirely different armies, really, with almost NOTHING in common.

Tomb Kings are undead. This means that they will NEVER run, all the units cause fear at least, and Terror at most. Units are expensive and poor at fighting, but when taken in large units will cause opponents to run screaming into the night. Tomb Kings are a fairly balanced army, equally capable of making use of Cavalry, Infantry and Archers. Just for fun, will someone try a fully-mounted Tomb Kings army and tell me how that works out? Also, unless I'm utterly mistaken, no Tomb Kings unit is allowed to enter a Wood. Drastically different from...

... Wood Elves. Wood Elves are never slowed by entering a Wood. Wood Elves are also able to bring their own forests to the fight with them, meaning that they aren't put at a huge disadvantage when there are few Woods on the table (otherwise much of their magic would be useless). Wood Elves are mainly a Skirmish army, with a lot of shooting and Skirmishing units that can't generally take a straight-up combat. Like all Elves, Wood Elves are fragile. However, unlike the other Elves, their armor is literally skin and a loin-cloth (although some Dark Elves also model such armor, particularly Wyches). Low toughness and poor armor combined with relatively high points cost make Wood Elves a strong offensive force that just can't take a real beating.

Magically, the two are also different in almost every way possible. To start, Tomb Kings can never fail an attempt to cast. All spells are bound, and only founder when an opponent dispels them. While easy to dispel (most spells will be bound power level d6, meaning the opponent has a good chance to dispel your magic on a single die), the amount of magic Tomb Kings can throw out in a single turn means that, invariably, some magic will go though. All Liche Priests know all Tomb Kings spells, so strategy takes on a new role as luck takes backseat.

Wood Elves have spells that alter the battlefield, as well as some powerful damaging and defensive spells. The Hidden Path will make a unit all but immune to ranged fire, and Treesinging can not only cause the forests to move to where the Wood Elf player can make better use of them, but can also carry passengers and even attack enemies that are foolish enough to try to pass through the Woods. However, Wood Elves have to cast their spells as normal, and always run the risk of failing to cast the spell, or even miscasting (which is never fun for the player whose wizard has just sucked himself and a friendly unit into the void, trust me).

Really, this one comes down to you, mate. They're both fun armies to tinker with, and though I've never played either one of them I've come against them more times than I can readily count. They both play totally different games, but I can tell you that an easier army to learn the game with is certainly Wood Elves, although Tomb Kings are certainly fun for both sides with all the cool special rules that nobody can keep track of.
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Old 20 Feb 2008, 01:21   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Few mistakes mate ->

Quote:
no Tomb Kings unit is allowed to enter a Wood.
Not sure where u got that fantasy :-\ They obey normal rules for movements except they can't march not enter the woods ^_^.

Quote:
(most spells will be bound power level d6,
2D6 on regular and 3D6 on lords. they are NOT easy to dispel ^_^ And they don't throw that much magic. Its just ALL going off every turn and its usually enough to waste opponent's magic defense by turn two.

But you right, its just up to what you like ^_^

deraj -> You must have seen lots of dull TK's... Trust me you can model them differently, but you right, bone is bone all the times. But they have enough armor to paint and converting is pretty easy Plus You can make troops out of scraps to save money ^_^.

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 20 Feb 2008, 01:31   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Quote:
Few mistakes mate ->

Quote:
no Tomb Kings unit is allowed to enter a Wood.
Not sure where u got that fantasy :-\ They obey normal rules for movements except they can't march not enter the woods ^_^.
No? Maybe it's just chariots in general??? I dunno.

Quote:
Quote:
(most spells will be bound power level d6,
2D6 on regular and 3D6 on lords. they are NOT easy to dispel ^_^ And they don't throw that much magic. Its just ALL going off every turn and its usually enough to waste opponent's magic defense by turn two.
Not against any Tomb Kings I've ever played against! Are you saying normal Liche Priests have chenged without the Army Book changing, or is everyone down at the local GW (including 4 different sets of staff, and the man who invented Sigmar [I'm not even kidding on that one, his kids come in to play. They're all very British]) completely wrong? Because the local TK players have poor luck, and sometimes I can simply remove one die from my dispel pool and say "It's gone".
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Old 20 Feb 2008, 02:51   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

Kaffl -> I have a TKs book. I've JUST checked it again ->

Tomb kings in general have butt load of bound items that are lvl3 and 4 and such.

Tomb kings and princes have incantations of their own that have power lvl D6

Leach priests have 2D6, High Leach Priests have 3D6 power level.

So in a regular 2k army you have about 2 Tomb King's, 1-2 Liches(usually 3+ actually), few from items (lvl3-4) and casket (power level 2D6). So thats 7+ (usually more) bound spells that will go off EVERY turn... ^_^

There are also items that improve your power level ability.

Trust me I know since I am looking at it right now ^_^. (not getting jumpy or anything) I am not sure what book r u using. This is what 6th edition? It is consistent with current 7th edition of the main rule book.

P.S. Chariots can enter the woods, but they take impact hits on themselves...

Walk Tall everyone!!!!!
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Old 20 Feb 2008, 19:07   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tomb Kings vs Wood Elves

In that case I must be thinking of Tomb Princes. At any rate, thanks for correcting me there. And the whole chariots taking impact hits in woods thing is probably why I thought he couldn't go into them, all those nasty hits would probably wreck his chariots, and Chariots are a general mainstay of Tomb Kings, I've never seen a TK army used without them.
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