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Choppas or shields
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Old 31 Aug 2007, 14:39   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
Join Date: Aug 2007
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Default Choppas or shields

Stupid question. I am not currently a Warhammer player so I have little idea what is game legal and even less what works well in the game. So here goes.

I find myself having, in a moment of madness, purchased the Orc regiment and am undecided whether to equip them with 2 weapons or a weapon and a shield. This unit at least will not be given spears. Is there a generally more effective configuration for standard Orc warriors or does it depend who they are playing against?

Alternatively, is it reasonable and game legal to give then 2 choppas and stick shields to their backs? Am I right in thinking that single choppas with shields still forfeit the shield in close combat but twin choppas still get the +1 strength on the charge?

If it makes any difference, if they ever actually see a battlefield, they will likely play against Wood Elves as my friend is showing an alarming interest in the tree hugging, pointy eared skinny boys. Though I would hope to pit them against others as well.
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Old 31 Aug 2007, 16:25   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

It's down to personal choice really, both configurations are useful but I think the general feeling is that shields are less risky and cheaper, T4 and a 4+ save is pretty good for the points you spend! Obviously the extra attacks are deadly too, in my 1500 points army I have 2 units with shields and one with extra choppas, and it's worked pretty well for me so far.

And yes you can have extra choppas and shields, but personally I think it's quite a waste of points.
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Old 31 Aug 2007, 17:42   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

Thanks for that.

I suspect I shall go for the shields on this unit. In the same moment of madness, I bought the Black Orc Big Boss model. Until further notice he will be joining this regiment and I hope he will provide sufficient extra hitting power himself.

Since I have a new found interest in Orcs (and to a lesser extent Goblins) I guess I should consider getting the Skull Pass boxed set at some point, both to learn the rules and give the orcs some goblins to kick around. I'd have to say some of the other army deals are a little gobbo heavy for my taste.

Incidentally, does anyone ever use standard goblins on foot? I only ever seem to see night goblins in pictures and army lists. I know they can have fanatics, though this would seem to detract a little from the cheapness of goblins, though I'm sure they can be worth it.
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Old 31 Aug 2007, 18:13   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

Quote:
Originally Posted by WarpSpawn
Thanks for that.

I suspect I shall go for the shields on this unit. In the same moment of madness, I bought the Black Orc Big Boss model. Until further notice he will be joining this regiment and I hope he will provide sufficient extra hitting power himself.

Since I have a new found interest in Orcs (and to a lesser extent Goblins) I guess I should consider getting the Skull Pass boxed set at some point, both to learn the rules and give the orcs some goblins to kick around. I'd have to say some of the other army deals are a little gobbo heavy for my taste.

Incidentally, does anyone ever use standard goblins on foot? I only ever seem to see night goblins in pictures and army lists. I know they can have fanatics, though this would seem to detract a little from the cheapness of goblins, though I'm sure they can be worth it.
Skullpass would be an excellent choice to learn the rules.

@ goblins: Night goblins have a lower Ld, but they can take fanatics. I cannot stress eough how awesome fanatics are.

So you are right, people take nightgoblins for the fanatics...
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Old 31 Aug 2007, 21:17   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

I'd get skull pass for sure if you want to start Orcs and gobbos, it's an incredible deal!

The Black orc boss is a great model and he's deadly too, for a cheap but killy boss on foot I'd probably give him 'eavy armour, the best basha and an enchanted shield. That gives him a 3+ sv and makes him strong enough to deal out some pain whilst keeping him cheap, and all the stuff is already on the model.

I don't think many people take common goblins, night goblins are almost always better value for points and they can get the awesome fanatics. I think it's a shame really, they are called "common" goblins for a reason...
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Old 01 Sep 2007, 14:38   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

Do comon gobbos even offer any advantage as a basic cannon fodder unit? I would have thought the extra Ld would count for something if you want a better chance of them standing and taking it. On the other hand, keep them near the general and this presumably becomes a non-issue (as long as he lives). Seems a little like fanatics and the number of them you get in Skull Pass and army deals makes common gobbos pretty much obsolete. Surely they have something to offer as infantry?

Incidentally, though I have not played either I am curious about the new animosity rules. Do the new rules make the army easier to handle or harder (or about the same)?
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Old 01 Sep 2007, 16:52   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

Well, if you don't give them any upgrades they cost the same but night gobbos get a 5+ sv in close combat but common gobbos only get a 6+. You can upgrade the common gobbos with shields which gives them a nice 4+ save in CC, but it makes them more expensive...one point might not sound like much, but when you're using them for cannon fodder cheaper is better, so most people take numbers over armour save.

The +1 LD is nice, yeah, but in the end it isn't really much higher and if you keep 'em nearthe general anyway it makes no difference. So common gobbos do have advantages but the majority prefer night gobbos, including me.

I never played much under the 6th edition animosity rules, but I've seen them and I'd say it makes the army slightly more unpredictable, but animosity is more of an advantage than it used to be.
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Old 01 Sep 2007, 21:37   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

The new animosity rules do make me question whether including a black orc big boss is such a good idea, at least not in a smaller unit anyway. D6 S5 hits to stop the fighting, right? I must admit though, before I read the rules on quell animosity, I thought it would be fitting it the black orc inflicted a casualty on the unit. I just did not expect up to 6 casualties.

Am I right in thinking the "get 'em" result is gone from the newer O&G book though?

By the way, what armour can the gobbos and orc boyz have? Twice you have refered to a 4+ save. I thought they could both have shield and light armour at best. Is this not a 5+ save?
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Old 01 Sep 2007, 21:44   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

It's true that the black Orc boss is harsh, but I think the price is worth it to keep your units doing what you want them to do. Besides, a few orcs or goblins aren't a great loss as long as they aren't big 'uns or something.

Yup, the Get 'em result is gone, which is almost a shame as it was great fun although it was a bit too far on the damaging yourself scale I think.

Check the rulebook-hand weapons and shields in CC give a +1 bonus to your armour save, and as choppas are now hand weapons orcs get the bonus too.

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Old 04 Sep 2007, 23:10   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Choppas or shields

Get Black orcs gotta love those Bastards of Chaos. They can have 2 handed weapon AS WELL AS Choppa's and shields also they can ( correct me if I'm wrong) make other Orcs not flee or stop them.
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