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dark elves
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Old 19 Jul 2006, 17:54   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,937
Default dark elves

hey i have a dark elves list i made i want you to check out im new to fantasy so go easy on me

high sorceress
tome of furion
wand of the kharaidon
dark pegasus

noble draich of dark power cold one

cold one knights 5
standard of slaughter dread knight
cold one

sorceress
darkstar cloak
dispel scroll

warriors 18 spear
lording

warriors 19 spear
lording

warriors 10 repeating crossbows
dark riders 6

war hydra
apprentice

reaper bow thrower 2
crew 4
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Old 21 Jul 2006, 15:38   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: dark elves

It's a solid, if unspectacular list.

I'll make a few suggestions and give you my reasoning for said suggestions.

For Cold One Knights, I find that the Banner of Murder is much more effective. For ten points more, you get +D6" on your charge moves everytime you charge. So you've taken a 14" charge move and made it a 15"-20" charge move. I've gotten off 3 charges in a 6-turn game using this malevolent piece of kit on more than one occasion... no small feat. With the Standard of Slaughter, you get extra combat resolution the FIRST time the unit charges... and that's it. One use only. This might be useful doing frontal charges on Chosen Knights... not a good idea by any standard. If you line them up 4 wide, you should get 2-3 W from the Knights and another 1-2 from the Cold Ones themselves, thus denying attacks back in many cases, which means you'll swamp 'em on CR anyway. The Banner of Murder helps ensure you get there.

For one of your units of spear Warriors, you may want to give them shields... maybe both. When using them as a baiting unit, you switch to HW+shield, giving them a 4+AS when they get charged. Not MUCH better than 5+AS with sp+sh, but might be enough to save the day if you get hit by something heavy (say... Chosen Knights.) Also a useful option when charging those pesky High Elf (grrrr...) spearmen, who will get to fight in 3 ranks. (Remember, spearmen lose 1 rank on the turn they charge.) Sure, you lose the 2nd rank in subsequent rounds of combat, but your Warriors will hold up better against the inevitable counterattack.
Also, on the topic of Warriors, I'm not sold on the effectiveness of Lordlings. I go for the Musician+Standard Bearer option, no Champion.

War Hydra... a fine choice, just remember to keep another unit nearby to support it. It's unit size is 8 (6 for the Hydra and the 2 Apprentices) which can be bested by pretty much anything short of an independant character. Thus you will start CR at -1 for being outnumbered more often than not.

I like the characters list, you've kitted tham out very well for what their roles are. I'm curious as to the Lores you plan to use for your Sorc and High Sorc (Usually I like to use a cobination of Dark magic and Shadow lores in a 2-Sorc setup. If you're new to fantasy, you might want to read the rules on Remains in Play spells and dispelling spells... that bit's quite important as Druchii have access to a lot of RIP spells.)

This list should be a good starting point for a new DE player, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.





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Old 21 Jul 2006, 17:16   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
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Default Re: dark elves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tenseiga
It's a solid, if unspectacular list.

I'll make a few suggestions and give you my reasoning for said suggestions.

For Cold One Knights, I find that the Banner of Murder is much more effective. For ten points more, you get +D6" on your charge moves everytime you charge. So you've taken a 14" charge move and made it a 15"-20" charge move. I've gotten off 3 charges in a 6-turn game using this malevolent piece of kit on more than one occasion... no small feat. With the Standard of Slaughter, you get extra combat resolution the FIRST time the unit charges... and that's it. One use only. This might be useful doing frontal charges on Chosen Knights... not a good idea by any standard. If you line them up 4 wide, you should get 2-3 W from the Knights and another 1-2 from the Cold Ones themselves, thus denying attacks back in many cases, which means you'll swamp 'em on CR anyway. The Banner of Murder helps ensure you get there.

For one of your units of spear Warriors, you may want to give them shields... maybe both. When using them as a baiting unit, you switch to HW+shield, giving them a 4+AS when they get charged. Not MUCH better than 5+AS with sp+sh, but might be enough to save the day if you get hit by something heavy (say... Chosen Knights.) Also a useful option when charging those pesky High Elf (grrrr...) spearmen, who will get to fight in 3 ranks. (Remember, spearmen lose 1 rank on the turn they charge.) Sure, you lose the 2nd rank in subsequent rounds of combat, but your Warriors will hold up better against the inevitable counterattack.
Also, on the topic of Warriors, I'm not sold on the effectiveness of Lordlings. I go for the Musician+Standard Bearer option, no Champion.

War Hydra... a fine choice, just remember to keep another unit nearby to support it. It's unit size is 8 (6 for the Hydra and the 2 Apprentices) which can be bested by pretty much anything short of an independant character. Thus you will start CR at -1 for being outnumbered more often than not.

I like the characters list, you've kitted tham out very well for what their roles are. I'm curious as to the Lores you plan to use for your Sorc and High Sorc (Usually I like to use a cobination of Dark magic and Shadow lores in a 2-Sorc setup. If you're new to fantasy, you might want to read the rules on Remains in Play spells and dispelling spells... that bit's quite important as Druchii have access to a lot of RIP spells.)

This list should be a good starting point for a new DE player, if you have any questions, feel free to ask.





yes im very new to warhammer i bi playin 40k for about two years but never played fantasy ntill now all my freind are playing fantasy so as must I unless i can find new friends lol

any way for the warriors i did give them light armor, sheild

for the two sorceress theon on the dark pegasus i gave tome of frion wand of the kharaidon ,lore of dark arts
the other sorceress darstar clock dispel scroll lore of dark arts
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Old 23 Jul 2006, 21:44   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: dark elves

Okay, first of all, welcome amongst the ranks of the Druchii.

I will tell you an easier way to organise the list. Put all the heroes first, then core, then special, then rare. It makes things a little easier. Also, for the unit entries this is a good way to put them:

hero (and a name if you want)
Upgrades (such as level two for a sorceress)
Mundane equipment (common stuff, such as armour)
Magic Equipment
Mount
Point cost

Unit (and name if you want)
Upgrades (certain armies can upgrade their units)
Mundane equipment
Command
Magic Banners
Point cost

hope that helps...

Now to the commenting.

Your high sorceress NEEDS a ward save, preferably the heart-stone of darkness (it's in the SoC book). Otherwise, your sorc will easily be taken out by gobbos in hand to hand! You spend like 300 points on a single model, you need protection.

Your noble is in need of armour. Even heavy armour is good. It gives you a 3+ armour save combined with the cold one mount.

I would give your other sorceress 2 dispel scrolls, and also promote her to level 2.

I would give the nights the banner of murder. It's a nice little surprise for the opponent.

I would give the units of warriors full commands. Everyone has a different view on champions, but he can accept and issue a challenge, to savve his unit or make it so your hero doesnt have to accept or flee to the back. Musicians are good for if you end up fleeing, they get a +1 to rally. The +1 in combat if it's a draw is just a plus. I would also give the X-bowmen a musician. And sheilds, the sheilds give you a nice 4+ armour save in hand to hand!

You will benefit a lot if you could somehow afford a second unit of dark riders. And dark riders should definetely have crossbows! They are some of the best fast cavalry in warhammer, since they have 24" range, two shots and BS4!

hydra and bolt throwers are good.

All in all, the list could use improvement, but its pretty good for a first try.
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 07:29   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Apr 2005
Posts: 1,937
Default Re: dark elves

high sorceress +1 cast spell magic lvl 4 +4 dice to cast +2 dispel pool has 4 spells lord of dark arts
tome of furion
wand of the kharaidon
dark pegasus 365pt

noble draich of dark power cold one usage conflict general units withen 12 use my LD heavy armour sea dragon cloak 6+arsv5+vs ranged attacks +1 in profile sheild two handed +2s killing blow 158pt

cold one knights 5
standard of slaughter dread knight lance heavy armor shield standard musician
cold one 256pt

sorceress lvl 2 +2 dics to cast and +1 dispel pool has two spells lord of dark arts
darkstar cloak
dispel scroll 175pt

warriors 18 spear 177pt
lording

warriors 19 spear 185pt
lording

warriors 10 repeating crossbows 110pt

dark riders 6 spear repeating crossbow light armor musician 151pt

war hydra
apprentice 220pt

reaper bow thrower 2
crew 4 200pts

that 2000pts can you help make it so i can fit in the ward save ??
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Old 24 Jul 2006, 12:50   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: dark elves

In response to brownmccoy's points, I will second his point on Dark Riders. Fast Cavalry (again, as a new fantasy player, re-read the rules) is veryimportant to use, particularly since we Druchii get them as a CORE choice... meaning you could concievably fill out your Core with a highly mobile unit, and use the rest of your points on the elite units. ***Note: There have been a few rumors regarding changes to Fast Cav in 7th, so I wouldn't go with more than 1 unit of them in the immediate future, at least until the rules come out. (Check out my Monster List thread to see how I used this premise. That's more of a fun-and-games list than a list I'd break out on a regular basis.)

I do feel the need to disagree with the premise that Dark Rider NEED RXB's.* I feel that RXB's are a bit overrated, although this could be a function of my army composition and playing style. I almost NEVER kit my DR's with RXB's. For 30 pts for 5 RXB's, I could kit out 3 units of 10 Warriors with RXB's. 30 RXB's on a less mobile unit, or 5 RXB's in a very mobile unit... there's no right answer, but I'd rather spend 30 pts for 30 RXB's than 5.* As a compromise of sort, I bring 2 units of 10 RXB Warriors... line em up in one rank of 10, and fire away.

mccoy makes a valid argument for Full Command, again, this is my preference not to bring a Champ with Warriors.

However, if you're into truly nasty surprises, let me suggest one unit in the Army that is definitely worth Full Command... Witch Elves.* > Not only for the reasons on FC that mccoy brought up, bu the Hag has access to the Temple of Khaine for 25pts of kit (50 if you use Hellebron as a special character... but I get ahead of myself here.) Here's where the fun begins. The obvious kit for the Hag would be Witchbrew, right? After all it negates quite a bit of enemy CR bonuses... this is indeed very useful on the tabletop. The problem comes in that if for some reason you lose the Hag (say, in a challenge) you lose the Witchbrew... I don't quite understand this myself, and i could debate why I believe the effects should stick even after the Hag dies, but until we get official word from GW , I guess we're screwed.

Let's take a second look at Manbane. Quite a nasty surprise to some players when their T4 character bites the dust to a Manbane-kitted Hag who knocked his 3+ AS to a 5+ AS. I can't gaurantee the Hag will pull this off, so I'll go to nasty surprise #2 when you reveal your Hidden Assassin (also equipped with Manbane) to issue the challenge.* > WS9 goes a long way... Again, no promises, but it has worked well for me in the past. And both tactics have failed as well.

Aside from having no armor save, T3, and the double-edged sword of Frenzy, I think Witch Elves are great. As a bonus, if you don't feel like equipping your COK's with the Banner of Murder, WE's are definitely a contender for the top spot for this banner. Just screen them from missile fire (Corsairs can be good for this) or take a Sorc with Shadow and pray for Pelt of Midnight (and some luck in the Magic Phase).

I'm kind of curious as to what mccoy thinks of my General (in the Your Generals thread)

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Old 24 Jul 2006, 14:27   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: dark elves

My reasoning behind the DR needing X-Bows, is that since they are fast cav, they can move 18" and still shoot! Meaning they can pretty much hit anybody on the table first turn! It means they can just run behing enemy troops and shoot them to harass them, and they might turn to face you, so youthen run to their flank and shoot repeat until either they catch on, ot their numbers are so low that you can charge them with the dark riders and a different unit.

I completely understand why you wouldnt take a champion. I just think it's fluffy for dark elves, an elitist army, to have the unit lead by a champion.

Witch elves are very fun, but... they die too easily, and cost a fair amount of points. And also, witchbrew still stays if the hag dies, because it says its used before the battle. I will check your char in the other thread momentarily.
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Old 28 Jul 2006, 01:23   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: dark elves

Quote:
Originally Posted by Brownmccoy

Witch elves are very fun, but... they die too easily, and cost a fair amount of points. And also, witchbrew still stays if the hag dies, because it says its used before the battle. I will check your char in the other thread momentarily.
No problems, as I said earlier, there's no "correct" way to set up an army list, for ANY army Fantasy or 40k, only ways that you've found to work.

I totally understand your point about the Witchbrew, that's the argument I used (unsuccessfully). I guess I should email Gav Thorpe on that one, cuz the item description states your (our) point quite clearly, yet I've read a lot of places that stated otherwise... the point is kind of moot in the Manbane equation anyway, even if GT confirms our argument, I probably wouldn't take unless I'm fielding two units of Witches (which I do on many occasions)

In the interest of keeping this discussion going, I'd like to know how you feel about Assassins.

I think they're a good way to boost the effectiveness of your infantry units. I like to take one in a 2000 pt game, place him with the Witches or a large block of Warriors. With the Witches, it's a way to give them a bit more punch, with the Warriors, it's a nasty surprise to spring upon an unsuspecting opponent. I've toyed with the idea of including one in a unit of Shades, but lately I've spent more time concentrating on preparing my Tau for an upcoming tournament, so it will be a few weeks at least before I get to try this out.
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Old 30 Jul 2006, 03:05   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: dark elves

Alright, here is my view on assassins:

They make a lot of sense fluffwise, and are pretty solid gamewise. They are fun, for the sole purpose that they completely destroy the enemies tactics, since they appear out of nowhere.

Also, the assassin scouting with a unit of shades with deathmask is always fun

An assassin being scouted with shades, while still being hidden might be fun just make sure you deploy an extra shade... If that's even legal. I've never tried.

I would be able to argue the whole witchbrew thing very well, since I'm a good debater. If they raise that point, state that the very first line of what the item does is that it is drunk at the start of battle. Also mention that it mentions no where that if the hag dies, the effect is gone so, you should be able to convince them of that...

Also, I am impressed about one thing: Gav was the lead writer for the dark elves army book... and it's a balanced army!!! GASP! I suppose the other two writers would be there to day "No, you're an idiot..." if he put a dumb rule in.
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Old 05 Aug 2006, 17:03   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: dark elves

okay guys i have

23 spear warriors
10 repear bow warriors
1 sorceress
1 noble on a cold one
1 Chariot
5 dark riders
5 cold one knight
1 bolt thrower

i have $140 TRY GO BUY SOME MORE STUFF WHAT SHOULD I GET I'm trying to put to gethere a good 2000pt list i want it to be completive and fun
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