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5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support
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Old 27 May 2010, 01:19   #1 (permalink)
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Default 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

I'd like to take it one Force Organization Branch at a time per thread starting with the Heavy Support choices in this one. A different thread for HQs and so on..

And what we'll do will be comparing the options in each FO slot and discussing the pros/cons of their 'options'

Also if possible when you make a post and then later decide to 'add' or change information instead of making a new post try to just edit the current one this will save time for people reading through your thoughts if it's all in one post rather than scattered about through the thread.

HEAVY SUPPORT

TYRANNOFEX

Overview
- I found that this unit was a hit or miss. Much like it's ballistic skill it could go either way in terms of usefulness during a game. It simply doesnt do enough in combat, it's slow and it's ranged weaponry leaves something to be desired. It's highlight seems to be it's defense.

PROS
  • Extremely durable
  • Longest ranged anti-vehicle we can get

CONS
  • BS 3 and not enough shoots
  • Other ranged weaponry has crap range
  • Doesn't pack enough punch for the price tag
  • Sucks as much as a Tervigon in close combat

Options
Ranged

Fleshborer Hive - Looks amazing on paper, but has very little use on the battlefield. It's a glorified batch of 20 gaunts worth of shooting. When was the last time 20 gaunts shooting won you a game? Horrible upgrade.

Rupture Cannon - Probably it's best weapon for it's massive range and strength by Nid standards. This our ranged can-opener. But comes with a hefty price.

Acid Spray - Comes standard and is useful, it would be much better if the Tyrannofex was actually good in combat. However you must consider that running up close enough to use this flamer is no easy task. This makes it a major downside however Acid Spray is much better than Fleshborerhive.

Stinger Salvo - Sucks, only 4 shots hitting 50% of the time at S5 makes this a very poor choice.

Cluster Spines - Much better than Stinger Salvo since it's not handicapped by the ballistic skill and can hit many enemies at a time, works great at clearing crowds of low T, poor armour infantry.

Optional
Thorax Weapons - They all compliment acid spray really well and Fleshborer Hive, but lose value paired with Rupture Cannon.
- Grubs version - Good strength means it works really well paired with Acid Spray as they will normally do good against same targets.
- Beetles version - Avoid it, the rending seems nice but low strength and low chance to actually rend makes it pointless.
- Larvae version - Great choice, you most likely wont be flaming vehicles anyway, so it best with Acid Spray since you'll wound most targets on 2s with both.

Biomorphs
Regeneration - Great choice for any MC with 6 wounds, this is a general rule that applies to all of them. Gives the most bang for the buck.
Adrenal Glands - A bit pointless the bonuses you get from Furious Charge won't make much of a difference against most targets. S7 and I2 is only useful if you are assaulting vehicles up close or if u want to try and nail that power first before it hits.
Toxin Sacs - Worst choice possible, actually makes the Tyrannofex worst. There aren't enough T7+ enemies in the game to make TS worth while for a Tyrannofex.

TRYGON

Overview
- After extensive use of the Trygon and Trygon Prime i've grown to like them more compared to my initial thoughts that they were horrible and only good for being fire magnets and a points sink. The Trygon must be used strategically i realized, so do not be fooled by his size and how mean he looks, he's still a gaunt at heart. Treat him with care and he will reward you greatly. This is definetly one of the better choices to fill up those Heavy Support slots.

PROS
  • Fire Magnet, can easily draw fire away from other units
  • Has fleet
  • Can be a synapse creature if needed
  • Has an alternate method of deployment just in case

CONS
  • Fire Magnet, it wont live very long
  • Can't assault when using alternate deployment
  • Very difficult to gain cover benefits with

To Prime Or Not To Prime
- Absolutely. The Prime adds Synapse which is always a plus in most cases and it provides stronger ranged weaponry. At 40 pts a piece this may not seem worth it, but remember the Trygon standard has average leadership and suffers from IB. This means his Ld value can be abused by any wise opponent so being able to deny this exploit and also support the rest of your army is a great benefit gained.

Ranged
- There aren't any options, other than getting a Prime. So I'll just cover this by stating that the standard load out isn't very good or reliable. Short range and BS 3 pretty much makes it crap. The Trygon Prime doubles the shot output and increases range making the weapon decent i've been able to use it on many occasions whilst i've yet to find use for the standard load out's ranged firepower.

Biomorphs
Adrenal Glands - Yes, it's a good choice to get your licks in before anything at I4 and the Trygon has the speed to ensure you get the charge in most cases. So it's a good deal and helps with vehicles.

Regeneration - Yes, same general rule applies 6 wounds is ideal for Regen.

Toxin Sacs - Steer away from the sacs with anything S6 because it'll decrease your combat power when you would be wounding on 2s (83% success) you'll drop to (75%) and all this to tackle the very few T6+ enemies in the game. Which you can bog down with other things.

OLD ONE EYE

Overview
- I do not own any models and don't have anything suitable for proxy (no i will not use the current Carnifex model for it bleh) So I have no data on him, however I am considering running it in some Vassal games just to get a few words to put on here about him if possible.

MAWLOC

Overview
- Hit or miss unit, it's a gamble however this is one of the 'better' gambles that you can make with the tyranid army. It's affordable and if it works can pay off big time in more ways than one.

PROS
  • Alternate method of deployment that causes heavy damage to infantry and vehicles alike
  • Special ability can affect multiple units
  • S6 Monstrous Creature so always a thread to vehicles
  • Hit & Run to save it from being locked in combat
  • Very affordable

CONS
  • Weak in combat
  • Fire Magnet
  • It's special ability is only guaranteed 33.3% of the time

Biomorphs
Adrenal Glands - Avoid, it's not a bad upgrade because it can help pop vehicles open and/or improve your chances in combat however the Mawloc simply isn't good enough to do heavy damage in 1 round of combat and it has the strength to pry vehicles open without needing furious charge.

Regeneration - Yes, same general rule applies 6 wounds is ideal for Regen.

Toxin Sacs - Steer away from the sacs with anything S6 because it'll decrease your combat power when you would be wounding on 2s (83% success) you'll drop to (75%) and all this to tackle the very few T6+ enemies in the game. Which you can bog down with other thing

CARNIFEX

Overview
- Neutered since last codex. Or is it called re-balanced? Any how the Carnifex is an empty shell of it's former self, however this doesn't mean that it sucks completely, as it is the most versatile of heavy support choices and that can take it a long way.

PROS
  • Superb versatility
  • Can take many options
  • Can form broods
  • Can use mycetic spores
  • Incredible Strength
  • Is good at combat no matter what direction you go with it

CONS
  • Expensive
  • Broods must be equipped all the same
  • Vulnerable fire magnet
  • Only 4 wounds

Close Combat Weapons
Crushing Claws - Suck because of the random chance and lowered initiative. Don't take it.
Scything Talons - Great and comes by default making it even better. Able to re-roll missed hits against anything.

Ranged Weapons
Twin-Linked Brainleech Worms - More powerful, but pretty expensive. Worth the price tag? Yes, if u can afford it.
Twin-Linked Deathspitters - N/A
Stranglethorn Cannon - N/A
Heavy Venom Cannon - A mixed bag, on one hand it is more reliable and able to pop tanks, but lowered chance to hit and less strength to pack a punch as well as being 1 shot only versus vehicles. Can be worth it but there's better set ups.

Biomorphs
Adrenal Glands - Good upgrade if you want to focus on close combat this can aid the carnifexes initiative and strength values greatly.

Bio-Plasma - Decent upgrade, it's only downside is that it has short range and is not cheap to take. But killing just 1 terminator with it earns it's points back.

Frag Spines - Good upgrade for combat oriented carnifexes.

Regeneration - No, too expensive and doesn't get much mileage since 1 carnifex is very easy to kill in 1 turn of shooting.

Toxin Sacs - Worst possible unit to use toxin sacs on since it's high strength already allows it to wound just about anything on 2+

Transport Options
Mycetic Spore - Sweet, not a must-have but a very very good way of disrupting the enemy forces works the best when used with carnifexes equipped with a pair of Twin-Linked Brainleech Worms allowing you to shoot and then charge into combat the next turn. Only downside to a spore is that your fex will suffer IB most likely and only 1 Carnifex fits in one.

BIOVORES

Overview
- Great improvement over previous codex. These guys are what the rest of the Heavy Support choices should've been like in terms of overall value. Highly recommended.

PROS
  • Great range
  • Very affordable
  • Very damaging against most infantry
  • Even if it misses it can still do damage as the spores linger on the table

CONS
  • Vulnerable to instant death from a great deal of weapons
  • Hitting the intended target is a gamble
  • Weak to Useless against vehicles
  • Very weak vs close combat for a Tyranid

OVERALL RANKING [Based on my PERSONAL OPINION]
1. Biovore - Best heavy support choice can maul infantry easily, deny cover, pin them. Just make sure your army can deal with tanks either with zoanthropes, hive guards or other means.
2. Trygon Prime - The added synapse really does help a lot if you want no zoanthropes as elites or want your troops to include no warriors/tervigons.
3. Mawloc - Let's admit it, when it works it pretty much means lights out for the opponent.
4. Carnifex - If you can keep them cheap and get them within range they'll put on a world of hurt on the enemy.
5. Trygon - Still decent but pricey.
6. Tyrannofex - MUST take Rupture Cannon otherwise it becomes nearly unplayable with it's poor close range stats.
7. Old One Eye - Needs play testing before I form any opinion on him.
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Old 27 May 2010, 01:59   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

I'll comment on the tyrannofex review.
1. The free flame attack is a free attack plus shooting two other weapons. So you can shoot 2 flamers that wound and a str 5 large blast.
2. The large blast shot still wounds marines on 3s. Expecally if you hit 8. That's 5-6 wounds killing 1-2 marines. With two flame templates wounding like 12 marines that's 5-6 dead marines due to failed saves not to mention killing around 20+ models with worse saves.
3. Low bs means it hit 50% yes but you get 2 shots. You have a 75% chance to hit with one and a 50% chance to hit with both. It's a long range str 10 that would probally last the whole game.
4. Yes it's not good in combat. That's why you use gaunts to screen and support the gaunts by flaming the targets than assaulting with the gaunts is highly effective.
5. It shoots further than anything in the army. Can outshoot anything. And can last longer than your guard and zonathorpes. You can't keep it by itself and must be supported by other units to protect it similar to a tervigon.

Also I wouldn't say the rupture cannon for 15 pts is an expensive upgrade. Also I wouldn't say you must take the cannon. It's great against anyone on foot as long as you have models baby siting it. It can wipe out squads to allow your troops to assault other units. It does what the biovore is suppose to do.
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Old 27 May 2010, 02:28   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
I'll comment on the tyrannofex review.
1. The free flame attack is a free attack plus shooting two other weapons. So you can shoot 2 flamers that wound and a str 5 large blast.
2. The large blast shot still wounds marines on 3s. Expecally if you hit 8. That's 5-6 wounds killing 1-2 marines. With two flame templates wounding like 12 marines that's 5-6 dead marines due to failed saves not to mention killing around 20+ models with worse saves.
3. Low bs means it hit 50% yes but you get 2 shots. You have a 75% chance to hit with one and a 50% chance to hit with both. It's a long range str 10 that would probally last the whole game.
4. Yes it's not good in combat. That's why you use gaunts to screen and support the gaunts by flaming the targets than assaulting with the gaunts is highly effective.
5. It shoots further than anything in the army. Can outshoot anything. And can last longer than your guard and zonathorpes. You can't keep it by itself and must be supported by other units to protect it similar to a tervigon.
You get nothing 'free', that land raider price tag is paying for all of it and the fact being that you NEED the rupture cannon for the Tyrannofex to be any good at all means that you are already paying more than a Land Raider.

Yes it does a decent job as anti-tank. Keyword decent thats why nobody tends to take just 1 of them, they'll take 2 or 3 Tyrannofexes to go the distance because really 2 shots BS 3 for 260+ pts just isn't that good.

I never seen anyone take a Land Raider for 'anti-tank' purposes. And consider that a Land Raider has 2 lascannon spoonsons twin-linked at BS4. Way more accurate with only a slight decrease in power so there is really no argument to justify that we pay much more and get less value for it. It's only saving grace as you mentioned is that we have nothing else in our army that can fill that role of long range anti-vehicle.

And i dunno why you pointed out that thing about the cluster spine since i did say that it is a good purchase compared to the crappy Stinger Salvo that i just can't seem to find a good use for on anything.

By the way it doesnt shoot further than 'anything' in the army, the biovore has the same range.

So in comparing 'like' units
A standard land raider and a rupture cannon tyrannofex

thats 90% chance to hit from 1 spoonson to 75% chance to hit from 2 S10 shots.

So the difference is the Strength right?

S10 nails
AV 14 - 50% of the time
AV 13 - 66% of the time
AV 12 - 83% of the time
AV 11 - Automatically

S9
AV 14 - 33% of the time
AV 13 - 50% of the time
AV 12 - 66% of the time
AV 11 - 83% of the time
AV 10 - Automatically

While it may seem that the Tyrannofex has the advantage when it comes to penetration. Consider you have 90% chance to hit with just 1 sponsoon from a raider meaning it's VERY VERY likely that both will hit thus you'll get 2 chances to nail a vehicle meaning that you have better odds at penetrating every time against every AV value.

And i'm only comparing these 2 because they are very close to what their damage output is and price tag, so their 'value' is similar.

All in all the Tyrannofex is not 'good' he's just 'the best we got at a specific role' and that makes him a decent unit.

And anyone that wants to make an argument for not taking the Rupture Cannon which is his only saving grace, will have to keep play testing until they land spearhead or dawn of war deployments and they'll probably change their minds about the useful of the Tyrannofex without the RC to back it up. (Yeah during play testing i was unlucky enough to land dawn of war twice and well it didnt go so good...)

That's why i place the tyrannofex low in my rankings, it's truly a 1 trick pony that only shines because we sadly have nothing else that could do what he can do.

While the same could be said about the Biovore being a 1 trick pony with many other options capable of handling infantry just as well and some better. I make the argument that there will always be infantry while once you get rid of the tanks the rupture cannon loses value late game. And you could walk him up there to try to flame something but then you risk getting caught in combat which isnt good.
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Old 27 May 2010, 03:13   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

I'm disagreeing cause I've play tested and use this model several times. Grant it I didn't realize the replace part till 2 weeks ago when someone pointed it out. I've played both configs. Either config requires you to have troop support to protect it against assault troops. I've won combat with it many times. Grant it I use it to assault squads between 1-5 models so other squads can attack something else.

If you have it with the acid spray config and try to have it go byiself it won't work. But if you have 2-3 waves of gaunts protecting it. It can fire before your units engage into combat or soften up units preparing to assault you. The str 5 pie plate and the hellhound weapon still have decent range to soften up unit before they assault you.

The comparison to a land raider isn't a good comparison. 1st off a lucky hit can kill a raider while it takes 6 lascannons, lances,multi- melta, plasma and railgun shots to even wound this guy. Even still lascannons, railguns, and multimeltas is even trully effective since the tyrnnofex sits in the back lines while the tervis, trygons, and gaunts tie up everything else.

Another thing is I can attack vehicles with this guy in case the two str 10 shots miss. I'll put my money on a tyrannofex vs landraider fight. The tyrannofex have more weapon options than a raider. The raider have the tyrannofex beat in the fact it can transport hard hitting units into battle.

Also to compare against a biovore is kinda silly. The bivore is mainly anti troop while the tyrannofex is both.

I'm not saying the tyrannofex is super awesome. You're paying for the +2 save and the flame thrower which is 60 points on the tyrant which will drop him down to 190pts. The free hellhound fire is probally seen as a 30 pt upgrade bringing the model down to the same or lower than a Tervigon. You're paying for the upgrades that comes with it if you like them or not. It falls into the Jack of all trades.

If my enemy fields a raider 3 ft away how am I'm going to deal with it.
1. Guard need a 6 and several weapon destroyeds and immobalized effects to deal with it.
2. Zonathorpe would take 3 turns to get into range if they survive long enough. Plus dsing them you have to wait till they come in and psyhood, and mystics can shut them down. Don't talk about mystic and psycannon shots.
3. Carnis and trygons assaulting. But they have to get into assault range and wait till they come on via ds. If dsing you will have to wait till turn 3 at the earliest. Most people move vehicles away and use troops to block the trygon from assaulting the vehicle.
4. Or I take a tyrannofex that can open fire in turn 1 and probably kill it way before the other 3 will be able too.

It's funny that no one complained about a twinlinked bs 3 railgun. But complains about a 2 shot bs 3 weapon which is better than being twinlinked due to getting off 2 str 10 shots.

Again you're paying for a 6 wound toughness 6 model that have the best save without upgrades. Of course it's not going to be cheap. I'll still use trygons, guard, zonathorpes this model is a very good support model. The others due to cheapness or does well in combat can operate independantly.

I take 2 of these guys cause I poped a raider and immobalized a demolisher tank in turn 1. Turn 2 I blew up the immobalized tank whil the zoans and guard hit the transports.

It's role again is support and needs to compliment other aspects of your army.
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Old 27 May 2010, 06:03   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

Ah but you are missing the point or you had missed the point since what you are saying is pretty much agreeing with what Ive been saying that it is NOT this 'super awesome' unit.

Like you said you pay for it all...even upgrades you don't need. And you MUST take the Rupture Cannon otherwise you are just not milking this bad boy properly.

You mention Acid Spray a lot but in your post about the tyrannofex but your focus is on what the rupture cannon does so which is it? Because you can't have both and one is clearly more beneficial than the other.

You mixed up my comparison with the Land Raider. I compared them both shooting at the same target. Land Raider wins with a lower price tag. And being that I also play marines I gotta tell you...the Land Raider sucks anti-vehicle, well not 'sucks' but more like 'its not really what you'd want as your anti-tank weapon'. That's the category the Tyrannofex falls into, it's not ideal but it's all we got for long range anti-tank.

And I can see that you swear by the 'put gaunts infront and run the tyrannofex' behind strategy which is cool im not saying that the codex isn't influenced heavily by the synergy of the units, but you are missing the point that i'm not trying to discuss any of that, im only discussing equipment and options. If we also discussed synergy then ALL the units listed would get a boost.

Mawlocs and Trygons work great with Lictors and Venomthropes, Carnifexes work really well with a Tyranid Prime etc etc etc

And you wrote that the tyrannofex had the longer range than ANYTHING in the codex. And that's why i said that's not true since Biovores have the same range. I didn't make any mention of which weapons they are firing since neither did you, i only dispusted the claim that they had longest range. Which again, isn't true.

And i don't play Tau, however I will tell you that TL BS 3 Railguns are definetly more effective than a Tyrannofex. I don't know why you would even bring that up, it's like shooting yourself in the leg unless you are coming out in full support of my point??

For the same points of a tyrannofex I can get 3 Broadsides with the above mentioned load out. That's 3 TL BS 3 Railguns. Same odds to hit as the Tyrannofex yet it's 3 shots and AP 1. Nuff said
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Old 27 May 2010, 12:02   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

When I was comparing weapons not on a point to point basis. I was comparing how if you run one broadside the twin linked str 10 shot was considered bs4 and was a decent weapon in that regard. But two bs3 shots is just horrible. The point is it's the same thing execpt you can shoot twice instead of once. On a point to point basis the broadsides is better antitank. Was comparing weapons and not units.

Also again the unit is a Jack of all trades unit for shooting. If if can fit one roll than I can say it's good antitank. But it scarifices some antitank to be antihorde. It can go pure anti-horde but you giving up the best ranged anti-tank gun in your army. I'll say best cause it doesn't need to be 18" away even though str 10 ap 1 lance is more powerful but lacks range to hit other units if against mech heavy list with vehicles spread out. The only saving grace for a zonathorpe is the lance shot besides that they really suck. +3 invul is not better than +4 cover save, +2 regular with eternal warrior not to mention warp blast can go through without hood negating it, not metioning they took heavy support and 3 took 1 slot but acted independantly. But I want go on about how they gimped my favorite model.

You think lictors really help deep striking. Read my deathlictor rant to take a deathlictor or not? It's a wasted power for the hit on target ability. You have to go through a lot of bs to pull it off. If you could use the effect when it comes in it will be differant.

Here is the lictor examples:
a. When turn 2 you're going to have a 50% or 33.3% chance to come in with taking any reserve buffs. The problem becomes you have to hope lictor hits the board before the mawlock or trygon. Also you have to hope that the last two don't come in with the lictor. If the lictor never come in the combo will never happen.

B. The most effective way I've seen is you're forced to take a swarm lord. So in turn two you still can garentee with decent odds it's gonna come out on turn 2 cause of reroll 3+. But at the same token the reroll 3+ makes it hard for you to keep the trygon or mawlock in reserves cause you have to fail 2 rolls on 3 which isn't easy.

C. For the mawlock you can field it on the board while using a swarmlord. The problem becomes it gets shot alittle in turn 1. You go into ds mode and lictor pops out you have to wait till turn 3 for the accurate insertion to work. So it will deviate in turn 2 which will die usally to getting shot up and may not see turn 3.

D. The flaw of the lictor is that you have to wait till turn 3 for the non deviate effect to work at it's earliest. Not to mention the lictor have to sit there for a turn and don't die. I find the deathlictor going to ground and it's abilty to half night fight makes it very hard to hit. But I ds mine near the army frindge or stray troops. To ds near the actual formation would be hard and will meat death by flames or through assault.

So I wouldn't call the pinpoint ds synergy at all cause it's rare to pull off. Expecally with the trygon. If I see mawlock and lictor I'm not gonna let a lictor sit there a turn so a mawlock can mess me up the next turn.

I'll rant on about how sucky the mawlock is. But I want to try out 3 mawlocks. My rationale is they're the cheapest of the 6 wounds and one is just unreliable so I'm curious about how well 3 will fare.

Also need to try out the carni to even really talk about it. I've seen old one eye die in turn two cause of lascannons. Got to give my 3 lascannons hitting every single time with bs 3.
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Old 27 May 2010, 14:59   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
When I was comparing weapons not on a point to point basis. I was comparing how if you run one broadside the twin linked str 10 shot was considered bs4 and was a decent weapon in that regard. But two bs3 shots is just horrible. The point is it's the same thing execpt you can shoot twice instead of once. On a point to point basis the broadsides is better antitank. Was comparing weapons and not units.

Also again the unit is a Jack of all trades unit for shooting. If if can fit one roll than I can say it's good antitank. But it scarifices some antitank to be antihorde. It can go pure anti-horde but you giving up the best ranged anti-tank gun in your army. I'll say best cause it doesn't need to be 18" away even though str 10 ap 1 lance is more powerful but lacks range to hit other units if against mech heavy list with vehicles spread out. The only saving grace for a zonathorpe is the lance shot besides that they really suck. +3 invul is not better than +4 cover save, +2 regular with eternal warrior not to mention warp blast can go through without hood negating it, not metioning they took heavy support and 3 took 1 slot but acted independantly. But I want go on about how they gimped my favorite model.

You think lictors really help deep striking. Read my deathlictor rant to take a deathlictor or not? It's a wasted power for the hit on target ability. You have to go through a lot of bs to pull it off. If you could use the effect when it comes in it will be differant.

Here is the lictor examples:
a. When turn 2 you're going to have a 50% or 33.3% chance to come in with taking any reserve buffs. The problem becomes you have to hope lictor hits the board before the mawlock or trygon. Also you have to hope that the last two don't come in with the lictor. If the lictor never come in the combo will never happen.

B. The most effective way I've seen is you're forced to take a swarm lord. So in turn two you still can garentee with decent odds it's gonna come out on turn 2 cause of reroll 3+. But at the same token the reroll 3+ makes it hard for you to keep the trygon or mawlock in reserves cause you have to fail 2 rolls on 3 which isn't easy.

C. For the mawlock you can field it on the board while using a swarmlord. The problem becomes it gets shot alittle in turn 1. You go into ds mode and lictor pops out you have to wait till turn 3 for the accurate insertion to work. So it will deviate in turn 2 which will die usally to getting shot up and may not see turn 3.

D. The flaw of the lictor is that you have to wait till turn 3 for the non deviate effect to work at it's earliest. Not to mention the lictor have to sit there for a turn and don't die. I find the deathlictor going to ground and it's abilty to half night fight makes it very hard to hit. But I ds mine near the army frindge or stray troops. To ds near the actual formation would be hard and will meat death by flames or through assault.

So I wouldn't call the pinpoint ds synergy at all cause it's rare to pull off. Expecally with the trygon. If I see mawlock and lictor I'm not gonna let a lictor sit there a turn so a mawlock can mess me up the next turn.

I'll rant on about how sucky the mawlock is. But I want to try out 3 mawlocks. My rationale is they're the cheapest of the 6 wounds and one is just unreliable so I'm curious about how well 3 will fare.

Also need to try out the carni to even really talk about it. I've seen old one eye die in turn two cause of lascannons. Got to give my 3 lascannons hitting every single time with bs 3.
The swarmlord re-roll is for which side you outflank from IIRC. Basicaly this allows your genestealers to come in which side they want to 8 out of 9 times.

For heavy support yes biovores are good at killing infantry. Heck you could always give them a cover save with gaunts or use cover . Also remember that the biovores can move and stay behind things to shadow synapse and get a cover save from them from much fire in front of your screen.

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Old 27 May 2010, 18:45   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

Cool i agree im' just saying the anti-horde parts isn't as good as it should be for the point cost one-bit. A biovore > tyrannofex any day of the week anti-horde.

Would you disagree with that?

And for the lictor it has good synergy with the mawloc specially because the mawloc can keep coming in and out so if everything comes in on a 2+ on turn 2, the lictors will probably be on board the mawloc can be used to attack a specific target near the lictor on turn 4 and so on.

While it's not a super cheese combo that you can exploit, it is definetly a good combo that can give you guaranteed accuracy on the mawloc's attack.

This can be specially worth it if you can lock the lictors in combat with something that wont kill them right away or also if you get into combat you can use their HIT & RUN ability to move 3d6 in the direction of a juicier target at the end of turn 3. Any who perhaps this should all be in another thread discussing specific Unit Combos and stuff.
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Old 27 May 2010, 19:08   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

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Originally Posted by Akaiyou
Cool i agree im' just saying the anti-horde parts isn't as good as it should be for the point cost one-bit. A biovore > tyrannofex any day of the week anti-horde.

Would you disagree with that?

And for the lictor it has good synergy with the mawloc specially because the mawloc can keep coming in and out so if everything comes in on a 2+ on turn 2, the lictors will probably be on board the mawloc can be used to attack a specific target near the lictor on turn 4 and so on.

While it's not a super cheese combo that you can exploit, it is definetly a good combo that can give you guaranteed accuracy on the mawloc's attack.

This can be specially worth it if you can lock the lictors in combat with something that wont kill them right away or also if you get into combat you can use their HIT & RUN ability to move 3d6 in the direction of a juicier target at the end of turn 3. Any who perhaps this should all be in another thread discussing specific Unit Combos and stuff.
Yup I'll go with the biovore due to large pie plates all over.

Turn 4 is kinda late to start hitting like you supposed to. Also the lictor have to survive in turn 2 when it comes down. It gets ignored until what hoe a mawlock is in the army it must die. So either they shoot at it to force you to keep going to ground while they move away. Or kill it before the mawlock comes in. Haven't seen it used correctly yet. I've seen people try it all the time but the odds make it hard to pull off. Guard can just kill it via shooting moving away from it while it continues to go to ground. While marines just beat it silly. If it's takes that much effort to pull it off like running 6 lictors or even 9 is it really worth doing.
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Old 27 May 2010, 19:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 5th Edition - Codex Tyranids - Breakdown - Heavy Support

I completely agree with your assessment that it's hard to pull off, is it a good combo however? Yes it is.

Think about street fighter, or any fighting game you play. Some moves/supers are way more easier to pull out than others. By that same note some combos are easier to pull off than others.

I could crouch punch, Hadoken, super.

Or i could jump xcross over medium kick, crouch light punch, light punch, medium kick, shoryuken, super!

While combo #1 is much easier to pull and can be used with impunity, that doesn't mean that combo #2 doesnt kick ass. Hell im more inclined to attempt to master combo #2 just because it's more complex and more flashy, plus I know not that many people can pull it off so feels good not to do what everyone else does some times.

Any how that's my reasoning for it. Yes it's a lot tougher to make it happen but it can be ridiculously rewarding if you do get it going.

And yes I absolutely agree that the lictor's special rules are the most retarded...actually that's up for debate the Spore Mines rules are even more retarded(wtf they scatter randomly and into each other and disappear??)

Try using spore mine fast attacks and you'll know what i mean...

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