[Akaiyou]

Ok let's see

Old Zoanthropes
Psychic Test: Ld 10 = 83% chance of success
BS 3 = 50% Chance of Hitting
S10 = 33% Chance of Penetrating
Damage Table = 33% Chance of Destroying AV 14

Mmmmmm so if you run that backwards...

DT = 3 Penetrating Rolls on Damage table to Destroy AV 14
S10 = It takes 9 S10 HITS to get 3 Penetrating rolls against AV 14
BS 3 = In order to get 9 S10 hits, I need to shoot 18 of them!
PT = If i want to get 18 Warp Blasts shots, then i have to take a test for each of them...failing one in every 6 attempts, so I would have to attempt it at least 21 times!

So what have we learned here? Destroying AV 14 with a zoanthrope in the previous codex was UNRELIABLE regardless of how you want to sugar coat it, destroying AV 14 was NOT easy. So you most likely owe our young friend an apology in making it seem like he's a moron for not placing his bets on zoanthropes that require 21 shots to take out 1 measly land raider.

And given that you could only have 3 zoanthropes in a (on average) 6 turn agame, you'd only get to fire off 18 shots anyway! That's the funniest part of all.

The fact that you need 21 tests to blow just 1 raider up and yet on average you don't even get the chance to make that many tests per game! So if you want any guarantee that you'll destroy 1 land raider you'd better hope for a 7 turn game!

New Zoanthropes
PT: Ld 10 = 83% chance of success
BS 4 = 67% Chance of Hitting
S10 Lance = 83% Chance of at least Glancing (any vehicle minus monolith/blessed raider)
S10 Lance = 67% Chance of Penetrating Any Vehicle (minus monolith/blessed raider)
DT Glancing = 17% Chance of Destroying any vehicle on Glancing Hit
DT Penetrating = 50% Chance of Destroying any vehicle on Penetrating Hit

In case you can't tell by just looking at those odds, the new zoanthropes is LEAPS AND BOUNDS beyond the old one but let's try it in reverse and see how many attacks we need.

DT P = 2 Penetrating rolls to destroy any vehicle
S10LP = 3 HITS required to cause 2 Penetrating rolls
BS 4 = ~5 Shots required to get 3 HITS
PT = 6 Tests required to get 5 shots to pass

DT G = 6 Shots to destroy any vehicle on Glancing rolls with VERY VERY high chance to at least glance on any penetrating attempt.

So if you want to destroy a land raider with the new zoanthropes you only need to use Warp Lance a total of 6 times in other words in a brood of 3, you'll destroy 1 vehicle of any armour value every 2 turns.

Thus in a normal length game of 6 turns 1 brood of 3 zoanthropes would have destroyed 3 vehicles while the old zoanthropes could NOT even destroy 1 reliably in a 6 turn game.

This means and i shit you not, that the new zoanthrope is 300% better against any tank than the old zoanthrope. 300 friggin percent! a.k.a 3 times better! aka it takes 3 of the old zoanthropes to do what 1 of the new ones can do.

I rest my case. If you had no reason to use your zoanthropes before, you definetly do now and if you used them previously you have even more reason to want to use them with the new rules!

[razgriz_cipher]

Except for the part when they die to lasguns or massed fire.

[HiveFleetGoliath]

But now they can deep strike. Problem solved

[SHAS VRE]

Yes you can shred them with lassgun fire, but to kill a unit of three zoanthropes with lassgun fire you need 108 lassgun shots. Yes the squads have heavy weapons which will reduce number of shots but quite a few. but says you only use five 10 man guard squads with a heavy weapon in each. I would be thrilled. because You now have either 5 less lasscannon/missile launchers to shoot any monstrous creature or you have 50 less lassgun shots at the 100 gaunts running straight into your lines. The thing with zoanthorpes is that with 2 wounds at T4 and 3+ save they do need a decent amount of small arms fire to bring down a squad, firepower which i required to shoot the more immediate threat of fast moving gaunts.

[Death-Merchant]

Originally Posted by doctor_wu

Except for the part when they die to lasguns or massed fire.

Don't play theoryhammer, please.

[Arschbombe]

The new Zoans are markedly better and they are effectively cheaper now since they all include synapse and are BS4. The only negative change is that now they must pass a psychic test to use to lower power warp blast.

[Scizor]

I always used thropes before, and i'm going to continue so. While the old 2+ was usefull as hell, the old invulnerable save was not. The new invulnerable more than makes up for the lost 2+, the fact it's a synapse creature and have the warp blast by default, all makes it much better choice. Not to speak of it's new flashy BS!

[Droids_Rule]

Originally Posted by Sneezy Panda

Don't play theoryhammer, please.

How is that theory hammer? It's pretty obvious. A smart opponent will circumvent the 3++ by just not bothering to shoot high AP weapons at them. You're better off shooting them with small arms and waiting for that 3+ to fail, which it will.

[SHAS VRE]

True its definatly better to shoot then with lots of small arms, but can u afford to spare those shots when most lists with have an army of gaunts right in your face.

[knightperson]

Originally Posted by SHAS VRE

True its definatly better to shoot then with lots of small arms, but can u afford to spare those shots when most lists with have an army of gaunts right in your face.

Depends on your army style. If you've got a big expensive land raider or similar big tank, then you have to get rid of the zoa's first. If you're running foot-slogger infantry or ork horde then you don't much care about a single devastating lance weapon.