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Tyranids in Combat Patrol
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Old 27 Sep 2009, 22:06   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Apr 2009
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Default Tyranids in Combat Patrol

Hi there.

A friend and I have just started playing 40K (love it!). I started a Tau army and he started Tyranids. So far we only got a couple of Combat Patrol games under our belt, but what we have learned can probably be summarized thusly:

Tyranids have a tough time in it!

I don't think I'm an especially good player, but I've had no problem beating him (in a matter of fact, tabling him) in the last three matches. Seems to us that the lack of a lot of Synapse Creatures (only really viable build involves 3xWarriors) really makes Tyranids a lot weaker in Combat Patrol than the other armies.

If it has any relevance, I'll just throw out the list I was using. Especially the Warfish was really a powerhouse in it's own, laying down str 5 ap5 hurting in either doses of 4 while flying around 12'' and positioning Fire Warriors. This really made the Tyranids fine movement speed seem like a crawling pace.

We have debated it alot and came to the conclusion that Genestealers and more artillery type weapons (Biovores and Spore Swarms) where the direction to go. But that still does seem rather... Easy... To cut down with massed firepower. Genestealers are only that fast, and a 5+ save doesn't really cut it against Tau.

Any advice on what he could do, since a build 3xWarriors for Synapse Range is a bit to easy to take down (don't know if it's just Taus relative good movement, or if they really just are that weak, but those 6 wounds seem rather easy to take down over 1-2 rounds of shooting).

We have considered just house ruling that either a) everything is in Synapse Range always, or 1) We forget about Synapse Range. No bonus, no minus. How do you guys feel about that? Bad idea, since we don't learn the 'real' rules and it will also give a very different and more 'normal' flow to the Tyranid army? (some of our reservations :P)

Cheers

Gorlak
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Old 27 Sep 2009, 22:46   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tyranids in Combat Patrol

It really depends on what he is playing. If he really wanted to he could run a hive tyrant with wings and implant attacks with 45 guants with spine fists. Howver thats rather of a power list. I would say since your both starting out it could be he just needs some practice with the army. I would not suggest changing the synapse rule that way he will learn how to play the army correctly.
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Old 28 Sep 2009, 13:08   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tyranids in Combat Patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Drax
It really depends on what he is playing. If he really wanted to he could run a hive tyrant with wings and implant attacks with 45 guants with spine fists. Howver thats rather of a power list. I would say since your both starting out it could be he just needs some practice with the army. I would not suggest changing the synapse rule that way he will learn how to play the army correctly.
A hyve tyrant in Combat patrol? IIRC 4th edition rules of CP says you can't use models with more than 2 wounds...

tell ur friend to use raveners/zoanthropes/genestealers...

outflank, and they all ignore IB in some way. give ur zoanthrope synapse and ur done. deepstrike the raveners and outflank the stealers. Should be easy...no need to take a zoanthrope though, just an option
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Old 28 Sep 2009, 13:49   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tyranids in Combat Patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjoerd
A hyve tyrant in Combat patrol? IIRC 4th edition rules of CP says you can't use models with more than 2 wounds...
I don't know if these are the "official" Combat Patrol rules, but it's the ones we use (its Adepticons, so we figured they would be fine) and they disallow 3+ Wound models, so no Tyrant

And will tell him (though I'm probably gonna regret it ) that the Raveners will be a boost. He owns a couple of them, but given that they're metal he's still fighting with the glue to get them prepared.

I know he's spoken fondly of a spore minds Deep Striking in. Any thoughts on that?
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Old 28 Sep 2009, 14:50   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Tyranids in Combat Patrol

Combat Patrol missions are kind of weird for Synapse. I haven't played at combat patrol level in a long while, but what I remember is that you can't have any models with 3+ wounds, and no models with 2+ saves.

That effectively eliminates the vast majority of our Synapse options. You can't use Hive Tyrants or the Broodlord due to too many wounds, and you can't use Zoanthropes because of their save.

That leave Warriors, and they're easy to wipe out, and if you use them with Gaunts, well, there goes the game with just a concentrated fire round(s) at the warriors.

I found the best thing for myself in combat patrol levels of the game was to just forget Synapse entirely and go with a Genestealer list.

I'd run 3x units of 6x Genestealers, and 1x units of 7x Genestealers - and make a mad dash across the table using cover where ever I could find it to get to the enemy and eliminate them. I never played Tau at that level though, only ever Necrons, Eldar, Orks, and Space Marines, all of which could eliminate the Genestealers at range before they got there. However, it usually wouldn't take too many genestealers to make it in order to wipe them out either, but the games were almost always lopsided against me.

Lictors might have been a good unit for combat patrols though, I just didn't own any when I last played a game that small. If I had played combat patrol rules in 5th though I might have tried out this list:

Lictor x1:
Genestealer x6: Scuttlers
Genestealer x6: Feeder Tendrils
Total Points: 398

Can use the lictor if they have any crappy vehicles to counter, and he by-passes the 2+ save rule with his actual armor save and gets 2+ cover in most cases, plus as long as you get some area terrain on the board, hopefully you can deploy him in quickly and he'll also support your unit of outflanking Genestealers with the Reserve re-roll. The one unit of Outflanking Genestealers will hopefully be able to crash into the side flank of one of your enemies units, and harry them while your other unit of Genestealers advances.

The conclusion I came to back in 4th though was that combat patrol sucks for us, at least it did with the units I could field at the time. Synapse was a major problem at that level, and without it, our choices of what to field really become limited. Hence, I haven't played it in a long time. I always preferred bumping the points up to 500, so we could forget the restrictions, but then using things like Carnifex & Hive Tyrants at that level usually unbalanced things in my favor so I tried to stick to games with Warriors & Zoanthropes for Synapse, Gaunts, some Genestealers, and maybe a single Carnifex if I had the points for it to keep things a little more balanced. Using my CC Flyrant at 500 points pretty much always proved to be a game breaker, so I wouldn't use that at anything short of 1,000.

I like the larger games better anyway due to the higher complexity level, so got myself up to 1,500 and 2,000 as fast as I could and then my friends and I would just play at that level.
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Old 28 Sep 2009, 23:55   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Tyranids in Combat Patrol

i think the main problem is that you have a very, very, anti infantry list, pretty much every single gun you have, will deny an armour save without upgrades, which you'd struggle to afford in a combat patrol. I think that nids will struggle against it at that level without the more expensive (money wise & points wise) choices.

i can't think of much that will outshoot you in a combat patrol, using that list, aside from a warrior with a barbed strangler/toxin sacs. Now that could sit 6" outside of your range and do some serious damage to your firewarriors/kroot! Forcing you to advance towards them

my experience of nids, says they probably can't touch your devilfish in a combat patrol, at least without getting 'stealers into combat with it, likely only hitting on a 6, combined with flachette means it won't be pretty.

at that points level, it's pretty grim for nids, pretty much leg it towards you and hope to survive a turn! Due to the limitations a combat patrol imposes, your list is possibly too specialised against low armour infantry for him to stand a chance, which admittedly tau can't really help. At these limits, and presumably only a battleforce apiece, tau v nids is generally not going to turn out well for nids! If you're going to take a 'fish, especially with flachettes! (rubbing salt in the wound ) try tweaking the combat patrol rules to allow your opponent to take their equivalent, the 'fex. (limited to an elite 'fex rather than heavy would seem sensible)
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Old 29 Sep 2009, 01:12   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Tyranids in Combat Patrol

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sjoerd
tell ur friend to use raveners/zoanthropes/genestealers...

outflank, and they all ignore IB in some way. give ur zoanthrope synapse and ur done. deepstrike the raveners and outflank the stealers.
Hm... How do you get the Raveners to avoid Bestial Insitincts? (assume that is what IB stands for) We couldn't find a way, but we could be missing something

Quote:
Originally Posted by Sootyuk
i think the main problem is that you have a very, very, anti infantry list, pretty much every single gun you have, will deny an armour save without upgrades, which you'd struggle to afford in a combat patrol. I think that nids will struggle against it at that level without the more expensive (money wise & points wise) choices.
Yeah I know, but as you also guessed we are playing from the content of two battleforces, so my Tau choices are somewhat limited and it's really hard to avoid the ap5 guns

My Tyranid mate played 3 games vs. Eldar tonight with a much better result. This time he went for Fleshborers on Gaunts, 3xWarriors with some sort of mega-template and some Stealers on the outflank, and boy did they do their stuff right

So perhaps it's just the Devilfish that's really the problem, and the Synapse is more of a gimmick he'll have to find his way around.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezalhualixtlan
I like the larger games better anyway due to the higher complexity level, so got myself up to 1,500 and 2,000 as fast as I could and then my friends and I would just play at that level.
We are also very much looking forward to hitting the 1500 point benchmark but probably not for another three months or so.

But thanks for the comments all. And while I have your attention, how do you feel for this list (in CP), as my comments where that the mines would give up to many KPs too easily (do they really give a KP even if they land on target and do their stuff? Seems... Stupid...):

x3 Warriors
- Extended carapace
- Toxin sacs
- Enhanced senses
- Barbed strangler (1)
- Deathspitter (2)
- Scything talons

x8 stealers
- scuttlers
- Toxin sacs

x8 gaunts
- Scuttlers
- Fleshborer

Mines:
2 bio acid
2 toxin

Mind you, this was against a Eldar force comprised of the battleforce and some Lightning Guardians (or something like that - not really that sure of their title, but melee Guardians)
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