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Question about without number.
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Old 08 May 2009, 16:32   #1 (permalink)
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Default Question about without number.

Ok so I came to the following scenario yesterday while watching another Tyranid player play against a Tau player.

The tyranid player was using Gaunts with the Without Number rule and only had 2 synapse creatures left which were his Zoanthrope and a Winged Tyrant which both were located on the far left side of the table.

They were playing Seize Ground with 4 objectives and the Tau had an objective near the Tyranids board edge about 14" away from it, and the tyranid player had 1 objective as well again on his side of the board on the left which he had claimed with some gaunts.

Here's a lil drawing of what it looked like: (sorry i didn't get to take a pic my phone ran out of batteries)



So here's where the problem came up. The tyranid player as you can see re-spawned his 2nd unit of without number gaunts on the right side where there is NO synapse. The arriving from reserves rule allow him to do so as rules that force compulsory movement are ignored for arrival from reserves.

However he was intending to move them UP to the objective that the Fire Warriors were sitting on as well without taking the Instinctive Behavior test to move them that turn. Which I openly disagreed with and told him that he's not allowed to move them without taking the test.

He claimed that they don't need to take the test in the turn they come in because the test happens at the start of the movement phase and the arriving from reserves rule allows them to ignore this test thus they are free to move as if they had passed the test for the rest of the turn. Meaning they are also scoring units even without synapse.

This just didn't seem right at all to me, but he's a pretty good player and he's actually corrected me on some stuff regarding Tyranid rules that I was mistaken on recently

1. Lictors take dangerous terrain tests when deep striking.
2. Gaunts don't auto-rally the moment they enter synapse range.

So I do take his ideas into consideration and that's why I want to ask other Nid players and find out what's what. Perhaps i'm wrong again and I'd definetly take advantage of the ability to capture objectives when re-spawning from without number, so what do the rest of you say?

Is instinctive behavior really completely ignored the turn you arrive from reserves?
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Old 08 May 2009, 17:40   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
Is instinctive behavior really completely ignored the turn you arrive from reserves?
I'm pretty sure that's the conclusion we drew here.

Quote:
Originally Posted by FuzzyTumpkins
On page 94 in the core rulebook. The "Arriving from reserve" section, second paragraph: "If a unit has a special rule forcing it to move in a specific direction (such as 'rage', for example) or that could stop it from moving, the rule is ignored in the phase when it arrives from Reserve." So, since IB could prevent them from moving, by lurking, or force you to move in a specific direction, torwards the nearest synapse, you get to ignore it.
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Old 08 May 2009, 17:50   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

No that wasn't it, I understand since that time that they can arrive from any place even away from synapse.

However the problem would be having them move afterwards i.e: Running/Assaulting

The rule says if you wish to move that TURN for ANY REASON.

Whilst you arrive from reserves i completely agree that's ignored you can arrive anywhere without penalty. But the IB rule doesnt only apply to the movement phase, it applies to the whole turn, with the test being carried out at the start of the movement phase if you intend to do any sort of movement at all.

So do they get a 1-turn free pass for everything involving IB? Allowing them to run and assault as normal, AND capture objectives as normal (in case the game ends before the start of your next movement phase)

Check out this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum...st/239362.page
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Old 08 May 2009, 18:20   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

I am not a Tyranid player, in fact I have never played (Tyranids), but I have a question that may be related, and may provide the answer you seek.

If a Gaunt unit is in Synapse range at the start of the turn, then moves out of Synapse range, during the movement phase, can the unit run, shoot or assault like normal?

If so, then a plausible way to interpret the situation would be that the Gaunts were within synapse range at the start of their movement phase, then moved out when they entered the board.

Does this make sense? Does it help?

Oh, and on Dakka Dakka, don't let them get to you. They allow trolling to a degree, and give quite a bit of leeway during rules questions. Just keep calm, and repete that you are not convinced because of whatever.

If I where playing as the Tyranid player, I would suggest rolling for it with the Tau player, or if he adamantly refused, I would just let it go.
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Old 08 May 2009, 19:41   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
No that wasn't it, I understand since that time that they can arrive from any place even away from synapse.

However the problem would be having them move afterwards i.e: Running/Assaulting

The rule says if you wish to move that TURN for ANY REASON.

Whilst you arrive from reserves i completely agree that's ignored you can arrive anywhere without penalty. But the IB rule doesnt only apply to the movement phase, it applies to the whole turn, with the test being carried out at the start of the movement phase if you intend to do any sort of movement at all.

So do they get a 1-turn free pass for everything involving IB? Allowing them to run and assault as normal, AND capture objectives as normal (in case the game ends before the start of your next movement phase)

Check out this thread: http://www.dakkadakka.com/dakkaforum...st/239362.page
Well, you are moving on to the table from reserve during your movement phase, correct? As per pg 94, IB is ignored in that phase, and since you don't have to test, and there's no other phase where IB tests have to be made because it's only made at the beginning of the movement phase, therefore you would be getting a free pass as you call it the whole turn.

I would agree with your assessment that if they were on the table, and you didn't "move" them during the movement phase, but you wanted to make a voluntary "run" movement, or "assault" movement, then you would normally need to test for IB. But due to the way the rules are set up for the Test being only ever at the start of the movement phase, and then combined with not needing to make that test at the movement phase the turn they arrive from reserve - it pretty much nullifies it.

I guess I can understand your interpretation of it, but it's not how I see it.

Sounds like another question to put up to the GW team... maybe I'll write them again later today.
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Old 08 May 2009, 20:45   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

Agreed
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Old 12 May 2009, 15:07   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

i know this has been unposted for afew days now, but i was reading the thread over, so... what is the over-all agreement? Im getting into tyranids and id like to know for sure, atleast to the best of my ability, how the rules work for such thing. I ask 1000 questions as it is about everyone elses army's rules, i try to know what MY army does. you know what i mean?

the way i see it, without number is similiar to coming in from reserves, so you *dont* need to test for IB right?
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Old 13 May 2009, 10:22   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

yes you act as if you automatically passed your IB test at the beginning of the turn. So act as normal
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Old 13 May 2009, 12:38   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

ok awesome. sounds perfect then. Same for Lictors and any other units that come in "off-the-board" right i assume
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Old 18 May 2009, 02:33   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Question about without number.

Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy35671
ok awesome. sounds perfect then. Same for Lictors and any other units that come in "off-the-board" right i assume
Lictors don't suffer from IB they are fearless. all fearless units ignore IB.
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