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Broodlords and Retinue...
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Old 04 May 2009, 18:09   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Broodlords and Retinue...

Ok, so I was making a Genestealer list to go with my Terminators.. and came across a niggle.

The Broodlord..
Some pointers before I start:

1) Genestealers have Fleet
2) The Broodlord's unit is a retinue.

So at first glance I noticed that the broodlord doesn't have fleet, so the retinues ability to fleet is lost at first glance (it has a star in the rulebook, this goes for scouts/scuttlers too)
BUT, if you read the rulebook, pg 48, it says characters with retinues transform into "upgrade characters" until the retinue is killed.

So my point is, can the broodlord use fleet and/or the scout rule if the genestealers have it. According to the rules Mr Broodlord is an upgrade character until the retinue has died, where he then becomes a character again...

What do you think?
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Old 04 May 2009, 18:39   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

Even if the Broodlord is an upgrade character, he still doesn't gain the Fleet special rule just by being a member of the squad.
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Old 04 May 2009, 21:17   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

question about that too, broodlord has infiltrate, thus him and his retinue can infiltrate correct? Does that give him and his genestealers outflank as well?

the way im reading it in the codex/comparing the rulebook and such... scuttlers give Scout, but Broodlord cant use scuttle, so... no scout move for broodlord... correct?

long story short would be - outflank yes... scout move no? am i right?

like Timjim the rulebook kind of makes this a sketchy thing and im not so sure about how it goes.

oh also, genestealers are troop choices but BL is HQ... does his Stealer team let you capture objectives or is that a "no" because theyre "part of him"?
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Old 05 May 2009, 00:12   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Thespian
Even if the Broodlord is an upgrade character, he still doesn't gain the Fleet special rule just by being a member of the squad.
Correct, on the "Fleet" special rule on pg75 of the Rulebook, you'll notice it's marked with an *.
On pg74, it says that:
Quote:
"The special rules marked with an asterisk (*) are automatically lost by an independent character joining a unit that does not have the same special rule. These rules are also lost by a unit that is joined an independent character that does not have the same special rule."
So the Broodlord and Retinue can not use Fleet.


Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy35671
question about that too, broodlord has infiltrate, thus him and his retinue can infiltrate correct? Does that give him and his genestealers outflank as well?

the way im reading it in the codex/comparing the rulebook and such... scuttlers give Scout, but Broodlord cant use scuttle, so... no scout move for broodlord... correct?

long story short would be - outflank yes... scout move no? am i right?

like Timjim the rulebook kind of makes this a sketchy thing and im not so sure about how it goes.

oh also, genestealers are troop choices but BL is HQ... does his Stealer team let you capture objectives or is that a "no" because theyre "part of him"?
You might also notice that "Infiltrate" is also marked with an asterisk in the main Rulebook. But in the Tyranid Codex, in the Broodlords entry, under Infiltrate, it says that both the Broodlord & their Retinue may infiltrate, which confers it on the Genestealers in the Retinue even though normal Genestealers may not.

Genestealers can pick up the Scout rule through Scuttlers, but "Scouts" is also an * rule, which means the Broodlord would take it away from a Genestealer Retinue that had it.

So the long and short is, the Broodlord & Retinue, and Genestealers can both get Outflanking. The Broodlord & Retinue gets it through his Infiltrate ability - the Genstealers by themselves would have to get it from Scuttlers. The Broodlord & Retinue can deploy as per the normal Infiltrate rule without using Outflank, but they can't ever get Scout moves. The Genestealers by themselves with Scuttlers could deploy normal and use a Scout move through Scuttlers, but they can't ever deploy using the Infiltrate rule.
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Old 05 May 2009, 09:36   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

This is something I feel GW screwed up royaly on.

I think the broodlord should be able to get scuttling and have fleet at the loss of infiltrate.

Just my thought.
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Old 11 May 2009, 17:23   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

Lots of Tyranid players use the trick of fleeting their broodlord against unsuspecting players (especially those that don't know much about tyranids)
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Old 11 May 2009, 19:59   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

hey 1 question that just hit me. Not 100% sure if this is correct or even possible, but if you give scuttlers to the broodlords genestealers, can you Infiltrate, then detatch him as in independent character, allowing the genestealers a scoutmove?

i dont know if retinues can be seperated from their commander, or if such a thing is possible like i said. So... sorry if thats blatently wrong.

on an off-note... can broodlord detach from the 'Stealers to begin with?

Oh, to Colonel Sorck - what you said about "fleeting the broodlord against unsuspecting players", you mean people "fleet" him even though he cant right? like cheating you mean?
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Old 11 May 2009, 20:00   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sorck (jimmy_mymail)
Lots of Tyranid players use the trick of fleeting their broodlord against unsuspecting players (especially those that don't know much about tyranids)
Which would be cheating... how do you enjoy winning a game if you've cheated?
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Old 11 May 2009, 20:03   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by skippy35671
hey 1 question that just hit me. Not 100% sure if this is correct or even possible, but if you give scuttlers to the broodlords genestealers, can you Infiltrate, then detatch him as in independent character, allowing the genestealers a scoutmove?

i dont know if retinues can be seperated from their commander, or if such a thing is possible like i said. So... sorry if thats blatently wrong.

on an off-note... can broodlord detach from the 'Stealers to begin with?
You can not separate the Broodlord from his retinue, not while both are still alive - pretty sure that's in the IC rules under Retinues, but I don't have my books in front of me. The only way the Broodlord can become a regular IC able to attach and detach from other units is if his entire retinue is destroyed first and he's still alive - the only way to make the Retinue detach from the Broodlord is if he dies before they do, and they'd regain "fleet" too.
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Old 11 May 2009, 20:06   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Broodlords and Retinue...

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezalhualixtlan
Quote:
Originally Posted by Colonel Sorck (jimmy_mymail)
Lots of Tyranid players use the trick of fleeting their broodlord against unsuspecting players (especially those that don't know much about tyranids)
Which would be cheating... how do you enjoy winning a game if you've cheated?
I'm not the one that cheats- I don't even use a Broodlord when i play. It's just that my friends used to use this against me quite often until i started playing tyranids.
I must point out that i was still winning against the players that cheated.
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