Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

Instinctive Behavior Rules Change
Reply
Old 07 Apr 2009, 15:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Akaiyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,023
Send a message via AIM to Akaiyou Send a message via MSN to Akaiyou Send a message via Yahoo to Akaiyou
Default Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Ok so I came across the IB problem while playing a game. And contacted GW once more about it to show my opponent that there were 3 options.

However this time I received a different answer. Saying that you could only do 2 things.

And I replied to that email saying "Wtf? you gave a different answer before to the same question"

And I just got a response saying that this was a change in the ruling after discussing the matter with the rest of the GW Customer Service team.

Quote:
Hello,

I apologize for the confusion. This is a change of ruling based on discussions with the rest of the Customer Service team.
and my original query

Quote:
Hi,

How does tyranid instinctive behavior work exactly?
Can gaunts capture objectives outside of synapse range by choosing to do 'nothing' ?
Or are the only two options for gaunts outside of synapse range to either lurk or take a Ld test?

The only two options are lurk or take a LD test to function normally.



Please can this question be answered in an FAQ update? It changes the way Tyranids are played Dramatically, by making gaunts near worthless in objective games if they can't hold objectives outside of synapse range.

We will see what we can do.



Most players and even GW store staff claims that GW Rule Boyz are not acceptable sources for rule resolution. So until this is included in an FAQ/Errata update, Tyranid players are stuck fielding only genestealers to be able to even compete. This makes tyranid horde armies near unplayable

So there you have it folks, we are now screwed until a new codex comes out and makes gaunts worth a penny again.
__________________
Back to 40k.
Akaiyou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 16:40   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,106
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Ah yes, the classic rulesboyz problem.

This doesn't change anything for some of us, you know.

I for one am happy to see that Synapse is still an important rule. You can still make horde lists quite easily (going warrior heavy for your synapse web). The only thing this stops is a mostly 'Nidzilla list that relies on the 3 option interpretation in order to actually be able to score with their token guants.

Sorry to hear that you feel like you are being forced to use only genestealers as your troops. Hopefully you'll still be able to put together a competitive force you can enjoy playing. And hey, give it 6 months and email them again, maybe they'll give you your answer again.
__________________
IcyCool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 16:58   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Akaiyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,023
Send a message via AIM to Akaiyou Send a message via MSN to Akaiyou Send a message via Yahoo to Akaiyou
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

I honestly don't understand how some of you Nid players can feel that not being able to do nothing is a good thing. For me it just simply doesn't make sense. Gaunts are animals that doesn't make them stupid.

Even animals can cling to things they hold important.

In any case i will play it as 2 options only from now on. As annoying as that is, i'll stick to the ruling whatever it may be.

On the other hand gaunts are truly unplayable. If you have too much synapse you end up getting whacked by no retreat and if you don't have enough synapse you can't dependably hold objectives. It's a lose-lose situation.

Only way I can see around it is to take large mobs and without number the bastards and force your opponent to kill them again and again that way no retreat is not as big a deal. And if you are using shooty warriors they can stay back where it's safe.

=shrugs= once i get my other gaunts painted i'll play test this theory n post a batrep for yall.
__________________
Back to 40k.
Akaiyou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 17:22   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,741
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Whoa, they changed the ruling?

Yay!

And, uh, sorry man, but I hugely disagree with your idea that Gaunts are now useless in objective based games. It'll just make Tyranid players have to worry about their Synapse web a bit more. I very often leave my ranged Warrior units or Zoanthropes to 'babysit' Termagants on objectives and it's never hurt me in the slightest.
Droids_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 17:41   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Location: United States
Posts: 1,106
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
I honestly don't understand how some of you Nid players can feel that not being able to do nothing is a good thing. For me it just simply doesn't make sense. Gaunts are animals that doesn't make them stupid.
I've always seen the 'lurking' option as the 'do nothing' option, as that is what they are effectively doing. But as we've re-hashed it to death, I won't go over it anymore. I will say that I don't quite understand how a lurking 'nid sitting on the objective isn't holding the objective, but that's how it is for the time being. I like having Synapse be a powerful, but fragile aspect of the Tyranid army.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
On the other hand gaunts are truly unplayable. If you have too much synapse you end up getting whacked by no retreat and if you don't have enough synapse you can't dependably hold objectives. It's a lose-lose situation.
Well, to be fair, that has almost nothing to do with this ruling. With 5th ed, guants lost almost all of their advantages, whilst gaining nothing in return. No follow-ups into combat and no speed advantage are some of the biggest.

Now you just have to be careful with what you throw your troops at, which is honestly a nice change of pace. And there is a fine balance to be struck with Synapse.

At any rate, I'll be interested to see your batreps with them. Will you be putting together a list that concentrates on the Synapse Web and hordes?
__________________
IcyCool is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 20:30   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Aug 2008
Location: Riverside, CA
Posts: 247
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Wow, that sucks. I've definitely used the "third option" many times at my LGS.

Gaunts are not totally useless. I use them as a screen: I deploy my genestealers in a box and have a thin outline of gaunts around the 'stealers so they get a cover save from all angles. However ...

Quote:
And, uh, sorry man, but I hugely disagree with your idea that Gaunts are now useless in objective based games. It'll just make Tyranid players have to worry about their Synapse web a bit more. I very often leave my ranged Warrior units or Zoanthropes to 'babysit' Termagants on objectives and it's never hurt me in the slightest.
From a different angle, I consider my Zoanthropes to be my only real anti-tank. That means that if I have one baby sit I lose 1-2 out of 3 of my total, effective anti-tank units, because their mobility is limited while they provide synapse coverage. Focused warp blast is short-medium range and requires some maneuvering to get at the enemy. The second reason I take gaunts is theyre a cheap unit that allows my heavy hitters to advance; having to commit my important units that are advancing on their objectives to the back instead--in a poor position to fire the warp blast--seems contrary to taking objective-gaunts (Especially since lurking units are non-scoring).

But, I suppose I could get around this by taking shooting warriors with a longer range that would still be shooting while baby sitting.
__________________
What the gakking feth ...
pikeZ33 is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 20:53   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Texas
Posts: 7,741
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Maybe my army list just lends itself well to this, but I've just never had any of these troubles. :-\

My army includes two ranged Warrior units and two Zoanthropes, as well as a Broodlord and Flyrant, which tend to give me excellent Synapse coverage. I have two 17-strong Termgant units, two 12-strong Hormogaunt units, and an 8-strong Genestealer unit. I've never found claiming objectives to be a chore for my units and I've always played with only 2 options for Synapse.

The Termagants are often used to claim any objectives in my deployment zone, with one Zoanthrope or Warrior unit hanging just under 12" away to provide Synapse and fire support for the rest of my army; combined with their weapon ranges this doesn't hurt their effectiveness all that badly until the very late game when the battle has diminished in size and become more a collection of scattered assaults. Besides, at this point, control of objectives is integral and I often thank myself for having the forsight to leave some units hanging back on my end of the board; it certainly deters would-be-objective-snatchers.

We must also remember that this all really only comes into play once the game is coming down to the wire in the last few rounds. It's never been that much of a problem to move my Synapse around, kick some enemy arse, and then pull back to my Lurking Termagants to provide Synapse at the end of the game while the CC units contest objectives on the enemy's half of the board.
Droids_Rule is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 22:09   #8 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: Gatineau (Québec) Canada
Posts: 6,212
Send a message via MSN to Boneguard Send a message via Yahoo to Boneguard
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
Ah yes, the classic rulesboyz problem.
Indeed the Classic ruleboyz problem.

What you need ot keep in mind is that redshirt and dGW Customer service are basically dudes like you and me who makes a judgment call. It's far from an official errata or an 'official' FAQ.

Said judgement call as all the weight and value of any and every house rules you make...which is close to nothing.

The only advantage it has, it's that it give you a 3rd party interpretation of the rule that would prevent you or your opponent to call favoritism.

And yes contacting GW several time over a period of time (or different geographical zone) will give yuo a plethora of answer.

__________________
For the Greater Good!
For Ksi'm'yen and the 76th Moracre Light Armoured Guard

I Invite you to join my collective story and to add to it.

My ascension to GODHOOD
Boneguard is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 07 Apr 2009, 23:02   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Akaiyou's Avatar
 
Join Date: Sep 2008
Location: New York City
Posts: 1,023
Send a message via AIM to Akaiyou Send a message via MSN to Akaiyou Send a message via Yahoo to Akaiyou
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
I honestly don't understand how some of you Nid players can feel that not being able to do nothing is a good thing. For me it just simply doesn't make sense. Gaunts are animals that doesn't make them stupid.
I've always seen the 'lurking' option as the 'do nothing' option, as that is what they are effectively doing. But as we've re-hashed it to death, I won't go over it anymore. I will say that I don't quite understand how a lurking 'nid sitting on the objective isn't holding the objective, but that's how it is for the time being. I like having Synapse be a powerful, but fragile aspect of the Tyranid army.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
On the other hand gaunts are truly unplayable. If you have too much synapse you end up getting whacked by no retreat and if you don't have enough synapse you can't dependably hold objectives. It's a lose-lose situation.
Well, to be fair, that has almost nothing to do with this ruling. With 5th ed, guants lost almost all of their advantages, whilst gaining nothing in return. No follow-ups into combat and no speed advantage are some of the biggest.

Now you just have to be careful with what you throw your troops at, which is honestly a nice change of pace. And there is a fine balance to be struck with Synapse.

At any rate, I'll be interested to see your batreps with them. Will you be putting together a list that concentrates on the Synapse Web and hordes?
I'm just waiting for Kasmira to get done painting my devourer equipped units. As some of you may know, i suck at painting and rather not do it myself so I wait until she paints the stuff.

Also I promised not to use my nids unless painted which as cost me a lot of games but at the same time it's been very challenging to play without a lot of my stuff. So it'll be a while but I should have more gaunts soon to play test. And i already have most of my warriors done so the massive synapse web i can pull has always been an option. I just don't like the idea of being 'limited' and always having to field certain units to be competitive.

I don't always like using carnifexes, tyrants and what not i like to mix it up and have fun with my army. Once all the gaunts are done however expect a massive horde in my following batrep. >

I miss fielding 192 gaunts in 1500 point games ;D

admittedly i've never actually won a game doing that in 4th edition.
__________________
Back to 40k.
Akaiyou is offline   Reply With Quote
Old 08 Apr 2009, 01:16   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Apr 2007
Location: Australia
Posts: 2,636
Default Re: Instinctive Behavior Rules Change

Its not hard to keep a few synapse creatures near the brood. I don't see how you can say it makes them useless....
limpchickeninabizkit is offline   Reply With Quote
Reply

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Instinctive Behavior issues Fearbringer Tyranids 4 25 Jan 2010 15:13
carnifexes and instinctive behavior + move through cover and forge world nids Scizor Tyranids 19 25 May 2007 22:38
If you could change the rules which rules would you change? Autarch_Kalesh Craftworld Eldar 14 22 Feb 2007 14:31