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Stealer lists...
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Old 08 Feb 2009, 09:08   #1 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Stealer lists...

Are they still worth running in 5th ed?

My specific thought was for a 1750 list with the following

Broodlord w/ Feeder tendrils, extended carapace
10x Stealers w/ toxic sacs, scything talons, extended carapace
6x stealers w/ scuttlers
8x Stealers w/ scuttlers, flesh hooks
8x Stealers w/ scuttlers, feeder tendrils
12x Stealers w/ Talons, scuttlers, flesh hooks, implant attack, toxin sacs
12x Stealers w/ Talons, scuttlers, flesh hooks, implant attack, toxin sacs
3x Lictors

So thats a rough list for around 1750. its 57 modles, of which none of them deploy on the table.

My only real concern is anti AV 14.


What advice do you give?
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Old 08 Feb 2009, 13:34   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

Did you read my battle report vs Blood Angels? That should give you an idea.

Just like you said the only thing that can seriously put a hurt on this list is multiple Land Raiders. A monolith can simply be ignored as you can and SHOULD go for the phase out. The problem with Land Raiders is that they are transport vehicles and as such the opponent can hide his troops in them and sit on an objective all day long as you will be completely unable to damage the stupid land raider.

In order to do ANY damage to it you need Toxin Sacs! To be able to get an AP of 14 on your rending attacks from the D3. Since we all know toxin sacs are expensive, your best bet is to use the broodlord and lictors to take out AV14 since they can have S6 + rending giving u a potential AP 15 roll able to penetrate raiders.

So if you have a Broodlord and Lictors you should be able to handle 1 Land Raider the problem is when you have multiple raiders and they are spread out.

On another note I noticed that outflanking doesnt always work so well unless you have good terrain to provide you cover as you come in. So make absolutely sure that you place 2 BIG chunks of terrain near the center of the small edges of the board. Or just try to avoid having absolutely nothing on the sides to give you cover, because then you are prone to getting shot to hell and back before you can do anything and genestealers arent particularly fast units, so chasing enemies down when you just came in during turn 3 or 4 is near impossible if they are towards the center of the board even worst if you come out on the wrong side of the board.


Another good tactic that i've been using with outflanking units is to place your objectives near the edges of the board on both sides so that when you outflank you can capture these objectives asap as you come in, this also causes your opponent to move his units closer to the edges of the board to try and capture these objectives himself meaning you have a better chance to assault him coming in from reserves.

I think it's plausible to play fairly well with these lists but just don't expect to have an easy time and be wary of Land Raiders as the ultimate opponent. Vehicles that can constantly move at cruising speed while shooting/flaming you are also ridiculously huge threats. AKA Land Speeders. They will DESTROY this list trust me I already got schooled by a group of 3 land speeders with heavy flamers and I learned my lesson. Destroying vehicles that you need to hit on 6 with no benefit of a re-roll is damn near impossible. But they are at least more killable than a group of Land Raiders (hopefully you aren't going againt Redeemers...that would just bring tears to your eyes)
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Old 08 Feb 2009, 17:26   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

One thing I have always had a problem with was scything talons. For every 4 genestealers you upgrade with it, you could just get another genestealer (5 genestealers is generally better than 4 with three attacks each). However, I think you have it used in the right circumstance (to get the most bang for your buck on the expensive ones).

I think more of your guys need extended carapace though. Your big uber expensive genestealer squads die just as easily to bolters as the standard one. A squad of 10 Marines rapid firing will drop about 6-7 genestealers. That's a LOT of points worth of models. Extended Carapace gives you the awesome protection against standard, rapid fire weapons that almost every army's infantry has access to.
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Old 08 Feb 2009, 20:22   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

Aye butr the abundance of ways to get cover in 5th ed kind of negates that. I may give it to the two larger units though. But at the cost of what? The squad of 6?
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Old 08 Feb 2009, 20:52   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

Probably that. I like bigger stealer squads better, and if your genestealers ever get caught out in the open they're gonna be lit up pretty quickly. Test the list without the EC, and if you feel the need to add it go back and rework the list. It's very much a personal thing for me, probably left over from 4th Edition.
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Old 08 Feb 2009, 21:21   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

I used a 1k list with Broodlord with 11 stealers, 3 groups of 8 stealers each, and 3 lictors. I played an ork Boyz list with 5 groups of 30 boyz each. With the ability of the entire army to outflank/deepstrike, I was able to get into assault with everything I had and thanks to the feeder tendrils and high ini I was able to lay waste to all those boyz.

I think vanguard lists can be quite fun and usefull.
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Old 09 Feb 2009, 13:01   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

One thing you will need to change are the Stealers with Flesh Hooks & Implant Attack, you can't take both on a Genestealer unit.
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Old 09 Feb 2009, 18:15   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

I think if you have 5 units of stealers, two should have feeder tendrils. That's pretty much the best upgrade you can give them. I gave the rest of mine flesh hooks so they would be able to benefit from their high ini when assaulting units into cover.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 09:37   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

You can have both implant and flesh hooks according to the Dex right in front of me.

The broodlord can't. But the stealers can.
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Old 10 Feb 2009, 13:29   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Stealer lists...

Quote:
Originally Posted by GoreChild
You can have both implant and flesh hooks according to the Dex right in front of me.

The broodlord can't. But the stealers can.
I don't have my Codex in front of me, and can't check it until I get home, but I'm relatively certain it's the other way around:

Choice of Acid Maw or Implant Attack, but not both for the Broodlord, and he can take Flesh Hooks with either (I mount the small sized ones in his chest).

and for the Genestealers its choice of Acid Maw, Feeder Tendrils, Flesh Hooks, or Implant Attack - but only 1 of them.

Again, I can't check this till I get home, but I'm pretty certain.
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