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I have some questions for all Nid players
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 19:16   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default I have some questions for all Nid players

Ok so in the Tyranids vs Tyranids game from my campaign report we encountered a couple issues that I wasn't sure about (go figure guess I can still learn a thing or two from others)

So I learned that the Broodlord is infact an upgrade character with his retinue now, which I was unaware of due to my inexperience in using independent characters (Too much Tyrant use). Were the rest of you aware of this?

Anyway the real question comes in the following form...when a Lictor deploys. I always thought his deployment was 'different' to normal deep strike. Reason why is because there is the Gargoyle entry in the codex which has "Deep Strike" special rule in big bold letters and says they can arrive via Deep Strike. However in the Lictor entry this is called 'Secret Deployment' and says they arrive using the deep strike rule to represent them leaping out of concealment. Furthermore they MUST always deploy into a piece of area terrain! Even if the terrain is impassible the Lictor is not destroyed and placed as normal, and he cannot drift outside of the terrain while arriving either. Plus a Lictor has the unique ability to assault after deep striking.

These are a lot of changes to the rules which is why I figured they called it 'Secret Deployment' rather than just 'deep strike'. So the issue is the following: Because the lictor MUST ALWAYS deploy into a piece of area terrain does that mean that you ALWAYS have to roll a dangerous terrain test when a Lictor arrives? Area Terrain tends to almost always be difficult terrain (I'm pretty sure everyone can agree to that) and hell the lictor can even deploy onto impassible area terrain.

This is probably the only time where I am completely on the side of the fluff. Because a lictor is supposed to be a stealth unit that hides until it strikes the enemy down. So does everyone here always roll dangerous terrain when deploying their Lictors?? Because I never do and I never would've imagined that the Lictor had to until my opponent yesterday did so when he deployed his Lictor and I said why is he rolling for dangerous terrain? He said that the rules do not exempt the Lictor from this which is TRUE but i'm very bothered by it and I told him it's ok he doesn't have to roll it versus me until I find out for sure because that would suck to have a unit that always has to take a damn test just to arrive.

Ok the next thing we got stumped on was Gaunts arriving from reserves. Reserves say 'the move onto the board as normal' and my opponent asked if he needed to take a test to move his gaunts onto the board from a synapse-less side of the board. It just seemed weird to me to purposely want to deploy Gaunts away from synapse, but even weirder to have to roll a instinctive behavior test before the gaunts are even on the board. So I told him that I was ok with his gaunts being placed anywhere on his side of the board when arriving from reserve. It just doesnt make sense to take the test and fail it and fall back when u aren't even on the board yet.

So yeah I hope I can get some opinions on these situations because i am admittedly not sure myself
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 19:24   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
Ok the next thing we got stumped on was Gaunts arriving from reserves. Reserves say 'the move onto the board as normal' and my opponent asked if he needed to take a test to move his gaunts onto the board from a synapse-less side of the board. It just seemed weird to me to purposely want to deploy Gaunts away from synapse, but even weirder to have to roll a instinctive behavior test before the gaunts are even on the board. So I told him that I was ok with his gaunts being placed anywhere on his side of the board when arriving from reserve. It just doesnt make sense to take the test and fail it and fall back when u aren't even on the board yet.
Well I don't play 'nids but did play against them and my understanding of of Instintive behavior was that you rolled if you were not at a certain range of a synapse creature at the beginning of your turn...could be wrong here, though.

So if the gaunt are deploy from reserve I don't see why they would roll right away for instinctive behaviour, since the turn is already started and on a roll...however if they were out of range of a a Synapse creature at the start of their following turn then yes they would need to roll.

I could see the benefit of placing them away from a Synapse creature, because if they fail they would move towards it and maybe sandwich an enemy unit between the two.
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 19:38   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

1) Don't think of the Broodlord as an upgrade, think of him as having a manditory retinue. But yeah, he's not an Independent Charater which can prove unfortunate in some cases... that one is summed up pretty easily.

2) Yep, Lictors have to test for difficult terrain when deepstriking in according to the rules (kinda vague, but it's still deepstrike, just with limitations. Like the drop pod, but you're still using DS rules). So yeah, it sucks when you kill your Lictors... but I love them too much to not use them, and I'm sure GW will FAQ this eventually (I hope...) Another big problem.

3) Boneguard covered this one. I'm with him.

Good questions.
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Old 16 Jan 2009, 20:09   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

Cool thanks for answering guys.

And I agree I see the broodlord as an independent character still I'll have to play more games to adjust my mindset to look at him as an upgrade character now.

And that really sucks for Lictors, but i'll play accordingly from now on. Hopefully a new codex looks into this little detail because its not like we have a choice, being forced to always deploy into area terrain and all.

As for the gaunts then that's cool, I let him deploy 'em without needing synapse anyway I also thought that was the right way. Because it just wouldn't make sense otherwise.
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Old 17 Jan 2009, 12:58   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

Going by what I've always played and how I understand it:

The Broodlord is an Independent character, but is treated as an upgrade character unless his retinue dies. That is when he is subject to the Independent Character rules.

Lictors are subject to Dangerous Terrain. I expect it to be cleared up in a FAQ but until then, rules are rules.

Regarding reserves and Synapse for Gaunts, yes, you have to roll to see if they are allowed to move onto the table normally if no Synapse creature is within range. They are treated as moving as normal. You roll for Reserves before any units are moved, and you roll Instinctive Behavior before that unit is moved. So unless you have a Synapse Creature within range of a board edge you must test to move on. However, keep in mind they will fall back towards the nearest Synapse Creature if they fail, thus running onto the board with a move of 2D6"(unless they are Beasts, then add an extra).

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Old 17 Jan 2009, 15:15   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

I am not sure I agree on IB. They are off the table so they do not have to roll for IB the turn they come on. They will have to roll the following turn if no synapse creature is in range. At least that is the way it is played around here and it makes sense. You cannot test for IB at the beginning of the turn since the gaunts are not on the table. You cannot measure a distance between models when they are not there.

Page 28 – Instinctive Behaviour, second paragraph.
The first sentence should be changed as follows:
"If all models in a Tyranid brood begin their
Movement phase more than 12” away from a
Synapse Creature, and that unit is not Fearless,
falling back or already in combat, it will revert to
Instinctive Behaviour."

The main reserve rules say you roll for reserves at the start of your movement phase. Gaunt broods are never placed, they always move on the table. Therefore you do not have to roll for IB.

The trick is to move unto the table and then have them 'go to ground' on an objective.


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Old 17 Jan 2009, 17:34   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

On page 94 in the core rulebook. The "Arriving from reserve" section, second paragraph: "If a unit has a special rule forcing it to move in a specific direction (such as 'rage', for example) or that could stop it from moving, the rule is ignored in the phase when it arrives from Reserve." So, since IB could prevent them from moving, by lurking, or force you to move in a specific direction, torwards the nearest synapse, you get to ignore it.

As to why your opponent would want to come in a board edge where there isn't any Synapse, I like to outflank Devilgaunts for a surprise drive by. ! turn of destroying whatever infantry unit I shoot at, then a failed IB test makes them drive off torwards the nearest Synapse.

Other than that, your questions have been answered. The dangerous terrain tests for the lictor are pretty stupid and I really hope that gets changed for them in a future codex/FAQ.
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Old 17 Jan 2009, 20:49   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

Wow good call Fuzzy I completely forgot about that paragraph in the reserves rules I remember reading it but it just escaped my memory thanks for bringing that up.

So yeah no test for the gaunts and the lictor thing is retarded but whatever i'll roll it still like everyone else. Once again thanks to everyone for replying.
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Old 17 Jan 2009, 21:14   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

That lictor rule is kinda stupid. Imagine him hiding in a forest the whole time waiting for a squad to wander by, and then when he rears up to strike he trips on a freaking vine. :
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Old 17 Jan 2009, 23:47   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: I have some questions for all Nid players

Don't joke :P I've had it happen before. And then my Barbed Strangler scattered onto my other one and killed him. WITH A 2+ COVER SAVE.

That wasn't a good game...
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