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Tyrants- A Requirement?
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Old 18 Dec 2008, 15:47   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Tyrants- A Requirement?

Alright guys, got a question for you. I hope this isnt a heresy but are hive tyrants required?

Im looking at picking up the Assult Brood and Battle force to get my swarm started. I was just going to use the warriors. I like the idea of using them as they are pretty cheap, theres more of them and I can split them up into squads.

We plan to play 1000-1500 games

Heres my main reasons for my dislike for the Tyrant
1. Wings- It seems like if you dont wing your tyrnats your not doing it right... I think a wing tyrnat is cool and all but it just makes me feel kinda Beardy.
2. Model- I really love the Tyrant Model but I hate that its a plastic/metal Hybrid. I can get over this though

I do want to point out that I think the Tyrant is great but is it always required? Will I get a swift kick in the junk if I dont bring one? Will I lose a lot if I dont?

Thanks for your opinions
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Old 18 Dec 2008, 15:55   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

No they arent.

You can have a broodlord as HQ or a group of tyranid warriors as HQ.

The tyrant is bad-D'yi though, always a welcomed addition in any list.

Who ever said that a tyrant needs wings to be useful??? That's a big fat lie. There's good set ups for walk tyrants. I posted a thread on how to equip your hive tyrant if you want to use the search function im sure you'll find the information useful in some manner.
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Old 18 Dec 2008, 16:04   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

Thanks for the Reply! Ive read it, good read. Ive read all the articles btw. Just wanted to get some thoughts...I did just come up with the devious idea of converitng my 4th Carni from the Battleforce into a Tyrant....Yeah that would be cool. Thanks!
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Old 23 Dec 2008, 15:50   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

You can certainly make viable, fun, and winning lists at 1,000 & 1,500 without Tyrants.

That said, they are an extremely strong, and versatile unit (not to mention, freaking awesome looking imo). They add an element of "oh my god... kill it... kill IT... KILL IT!" to your oponents game which can draw fire away from other stuff that might be easier to destroy but still deadly. And if your opponent hasn't taken something that can effectively deal with a Tyrant, it will tear them apart.

As for Wings or no Wings... I like my Winged Tyrant best, but I've recently been running lists (1,500 & 2,000) with 2 Tyrants, 1 Winged, 1 Walking w/ Guard - stripped down, and not too many points invested in them to make it workable. It can be a beast to deal with. Walking Tyrants with Guard are certainly a tough nut to crack.

Anyway, I really like my Hive Tyrants, certainly my favorite of our HQ options.

As for the mixed metal/plastic model, I hear you... I'm not a huge fan of metal models as it is, I find plastic a lot easier to work with (and less prone to harming itself via getting knocked over), but the when dealing with the mixed plastic & metal, I make liberal use of greenstuff to make sure everything turns out looking right.
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Old 23 Dec 2008, 16:38   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Nezalhualixtlan
You can certainly make viable, fun, and winning lists at 1,000 & 1,500 without Tyrants.

That said, they are an extremely strong, and versatile unit (not to mention, freaking awesome looking imo). They add an element of "oh my god... kill it... kill IT... KILL IT!" to your oponents game which can draw fire away from other stuff that might be easier to destroy but still deadly. And if your opponent hasn't taken something that can effectively deal with a Tyrant, it will tear them apart.

As for Wings or no Wings... I like my Winged Tyrant best, but I've recently been running lists (1,500 & 2,000) with 2 Tyrants, 1 Winged, 1 Walking w/ Guard - stripped down, and not too many points invested in them to make it workable. It can be a beast to deal with. Walking Tyrants with Guard are certainly a tough nut to crack.

Anyway, I really like my Hive Tyrants, certainly my favorite of our HQ options.

As for the mixed metal/plastic model, I hear you... I'm not a huge fan of metal models as it is, I find plastic a lot easier to work with (and less prone to harming itself via getting knocked over), but the when dealing with the mixed plastic & metal, I make liberal use of greenstuff to make sure everything turns out looking right.
I agree with everything stated above except that I think that you can play without a tyrant whatsoever and have a very competitive list. Tyrants are like icing on a cake, the hive tyrant is also my fav HQ option and very much my favorite tyranid model hands down (i mean come on just look at it, it couldn't look any cooler than that! could it?)

But i've made several high point game lists without any hive tyrants and performed very well. Wether i had warriors as HQ or a Broodlord or a mix of both they can get the job done. The broodlord is specially just as capable as the tyrant and perhaps even more so in regards to CC, there's good reason why there's a 0-1 limit on him.

So go ahead and make lists of whatever point limit u want without a tyrant u'll remain competitive.
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Old 23 Dec 2008, 16:45   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

One big thing about tyrants that has only been hinted at in this thread is that they are incredibly tough to kill. If you give them a couple of Tyrant guards, a walking Tyrant is a terrifyingly resilient foe. They are a great core to your synapse web, and will draw a tremendous amount of fire and still keep coming. So while they are not necessary, they are useful, characterful, and durable.
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Old 23 Dec 2008, 17:15   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
One big thing about tyrants that has only been hinted at in this thread is that they are incredibly tough to kill. If you give them a couple of Tyrant guards, a walking Tyrant is a terrifyingly resilient foe. They are a great core to your synapse web, and will draw a tremendous amount of fire and still keep coming. So while they are not necessary, they are useful, characterful, and durable.
In support of that statement back when I used to play games with my friends and it was 3 or 4 vs 1. My hive tyrant with guard was able to soak up the fire from all their heavy support units before going down and some times they couldn't even kill it even with all their fire power combined in 1 turn.

In light of that, my opponents would just ignore him because he's just too tough to get rid of easily. This is why if you will use a walk tyrant with guard I highly suggest a venom cannon with scything talons. So you can move him up for assault while be able to pump out 3 BS4 S8 shots at near by targets specially vehicles.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 05:18   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

Figured I'd bring back this thread instead of making another one... I wanted to get some people's opinions on Tyrants.

Flyrants are generally accepted as the best/most useful Tyrants. They fly around and carve things up... pretty self explanatory, right? On further inspection, it seems to me that some devastating walking Tyrants could be made. For instance...

A walking Tyrant with some guns, and 3x Tyrant Guard. Yay, now you get 6 extra wounds to the Tyrant a bucketloads of extra attacks. Tough unit to shoot down, right? But if you give the Tyrant Guard lash whips, suddenly anything attacking you is at -3 attacks... that's enough to cripple most hard hitting assault units. So now you have a jabillion wounds and a good save to ignroe the worst shooting can throw at you, but anything engaging you in combat is bound to fall to your lash whips and Monstrous Creature abilities. The only thing it lacks is speed, but if you give the Tyrant a gun you won't even need that!

Thoughts? It certainly seems like a tough unit, I was examining some of the nasty new assault combos (2 flying demon princes, berserkers/bloodletters, Vanguard Veterans, Orks, Black Templars...) and realised by negating most of those attacks you could beat them up pretty hard in combat. You could even take two of these builds, and throw it in the middle of the rest of your horde... talk about unkillable!
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 06:04   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

the problem with using lash whips is that the guard are bound to die eventually normally before they ever see combat so how useful is that gonna be to you?

I already use a walk tyrant with 3 guards and the tyrant has a venom cannon plus talon I use him to dish out a constant 3x S8 shots at my opponent's tanks in support of my sniperfexes and i some times will shot at instant killable characters if they get unlucky and fail their save it's lights out for them.
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Old 27 Dec 2008, 13:24   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyrants- A Requirement?

Sure the guard will die, but they're kinda there for that... to take hits for the Tyrant. Besides, knocking off 6 T6 wounds with a 3+ save isn't the easiest thing to do either. In addition, they can get you more lashes which are great for taking down heros and stuff. Usually, I don't care much for Nid shooting combat is the way to go for me, but having the extra shots on a particularly slow unit makes sense. The Venom Cannon gives him some versatility, and since my LGS players run open top vehicles (ORKS, and Hellhounds) a lot it's good enough for me.

So it turns out, to my dismay, that Lash only affects models in base contact. But MC's, characters and stuff all need to be in base contact to attack... so you'll still be beating up tough enemies pretty badly.
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