[chicop76]

OK, I played a game this Monday and winded up with a draw. What was frustrating was this was against Daemon Hunters who was running two Land Raider Crusaders. he said he has never lost with them and I saw why. He also was playing with inducted guard as well.

The grand knight HQ didn't help since he killed two of my fexes. But the real problem with his army was the two landraiders. The power of the machine spirit was getting on my nerves. When I get a 1 or 2 result it did nothing. On a 3-4 it helped but not enough. The crusader have way to many weapons for my taste. But destroying most of the weapons and immobilizing the two land raiders i was barley able to squeeze in a tie to kill his troops lying on the other objective.

I was shooting the land raiders with my 3 zonathorpes ans my two sniper fexes which tied up all my heavy shooting. In this game I realized that I may have to retire the venom cannon. My most effective results was when my carnifex assaulted the land raider.

I want to still use the barbed strangler as a weapon with my fexes. but I'm thinking of making them a bit more hand to hand and durable. I usually keep my heavy fexes in the back sniping away.

My point is what a man to do. I'm asking how everyone else fair to the new land raider rules and how they deal with them.

[knightperson]

Land Raiders are insanely tough to kill, even with tau railguns! Warp blasts are almost as good so start with them. Under 5th edition rules don't expect to kill anything with a glancing hit from a venom cannon. If you're lucky you'll get an immobilize, but don't expect to finish it off.

What about sicking an assault carnifex or hive tyrant on it instead? Whatever their strength is plus 2d6 for armor penetration shouldn't have too much trouble beating 14 armor. Sure the land raider is about as fast as lumbering carnifexes, but if it's trying to stay away from them at least it won't be shooting much! I'm not a tyranid player, but could you send in a flyrant with warp blast and some big claws to kill a land raider?

[USAFTACP]

I definitely think assaulting is your best bet. S10 CC fex with 5-6 attacks can easily get a number of pens on a LR. If you don't destroy it that turn, you can charge it again the turn after and it'll be dead for sure.

[khanaris]

You need to use close combat Carnifexes. No two ways about it. You aren't playing an army that was meant to be particularly effective at ranged combat. 5th Edition took a few steps to reinforce that, including the weakening of Glancing Hits.

[Akaiyou]

Originally Posted by Khanaris

You need to use close combat Carnifexes. No two ways about it. You aren't playing an army that was meant to be particularly effective at ranged combat. 5th Edition took a few steps to reinforce that, including the weakening of Glancing Hits.

I have to disagree. I run very shooty Nids and win. You just need to strategize better in the sense that you have to pick your equipment wiser and choose your battles effectively and accordingly.

Venom Cannon is still a tough customer versus vehicles regardless of what anyone else will tell you, the venom cannon DOES work much better than any other anti-tank shooting weapon we have. This includes warpblast because you only get 1 shot at 18" range, while the VC has 2 shots at 36".

In any case I think you should drop the sniper fexes for mixed fexes, that's what im going for nowadays because let's face it the Barbed Strangler sucks majorly against vehicles and at least for me, the scattering is a major turn off.

A MIXED carnifex with a venom cannon and a pair of talons is much more effective against against AV14 than a sniper fex or a CC fex. You can continously shoot your VC hoping to immobilze or armament destroy your target while moving up to assault it and finish it off.

The mistake many players are making is that they feel that the VC SHOULD be there to destroy the vehicles while they sit happily in the back lines. This is not how you play Tyranids that's strategy at it's worst, as you are relying on a weapon that can't take out vehicles that well but that can impair them instead effectively. So just keep that in mind and plan better. Really try a mixed fex witht he 'move and shoot' strategy in a few games and see for yourself if it works or not.

[chicop76]

Well I agree and disagree with you Akaiyou . Sorry wrong thread. Forgot I wrote my pros and cons somewhere else. Anyway The problem is against a land raider you need a 4 or higher to hit. Than due to the machine spirit you need a 5 or higher to do something to the tank.

Against a grey knight crusader you're left with either blowing up a weapon or immobilizing the tank. Immobilizing helps if the tank is not sitting by the objective you're trying to take. Then you can consider weapon destroyed effect. OK do I blow up the 3 twin linked bolters, 3 twin linked bolters, melta- melta, or assault cannon. With troops being important the melta gun is usualy the last choice.

But what I'm getting at is the venom cannon is not effective against things that ignore stun or shaken results. Now against a Basilisk or Lemon Russe I say a Venom Cannon is worth it. But against a monolith it's almost like a waste of points or the stupid rule change to land raiders.

I'm considering using mixed fexes now due to the problems it caused me in the game. If I had a choice out of barbed strangler or venom cannon, I would choose the barbed strangler. The barbed strangler actually prevented me from losing the game. It's also a really good anti-troop weapon. It killed three grey knights for me in one blast. Actually 7 grey knights and 22 special guard died to my barbed attacks. Than it always on the table, you can't beat that.

I don't want to stop using venom cannons. But I will have to reconfigure how I play. I may only use one venom cannon in the game now. But i won't swear by them as much as I use to.

[Akaiyou]

Originally Posted by chicop76

Well I agree and disagree with you Akaiyou . Sorry wrong thread. Forgot I wrote my pros and cons somewhere else. Anyway The problem is against a land raider you need a 4 or higher to hit. Than due to the machine spirit you need a 5 or higher to do something to the tank.

Against a grey knight crusader you're left with either blowing up a weapon or immobilizing the tank. Immobilizing helps if the tank is not sitting by the objective you're trying to take. Then you can consider weapon destroyed effect. OK do I blow up the 3 twin linked bolters, 3 twin linked bolters, melta- melta, or assault cannon. With troops being important the melta gun is usualy the last choice.

But what I'm getting at is the venom cannon is not effective against things that ignore stun or shaken results. Now against a Basilisk or Lemon Russe I say a Venom Cannon is worth it. But against a monolith it's almost like a waste of points or the stupid rule change to land raiders.

I'm considering using mixed fexes now due to the problems it caused me in the game. If I had a choice out of barbed strangler or venom cannon, I would choose the barbed strangler. The barbed strangler actually prevented me from losing the game. It's also a really good anti-troop weapon. It killed three grey knights for me in one blast. Actually 7 grey knights and 22 special guard died to my barbed attacks. Than it always on the table, you can't beat that.

I don't want to stop using venom cannons. But I will have to reconfigure how I play. I may only use one venom cannon in the game now. But i won't swear by them as much as I use to.

BS alone just isn't my cup of tea personally.

And yes i know that some vehicles can ignore stun/shaken because I actually run Monoliths and Land Raiders in my armies. So i know exactly the extent to which i can depend on those and vice-versa if im on the attack.

The strangler is completely worthless against AV14 vehicles in comparison to a venom cannon. Thats why i love mixed fexes.

You dont need to try to destroy every weapon on the tank just move forward adn shoot it every turn until you reach it. If you get armament destroyed on it then take out it's strongest guns first.

The crusader has the hurricane bolters, big deal those things need 24" range i doubt he wants to bring his land raider so close to a carnifex. His other weapons are the actual threat so just armament destroy his longest range first so he cant shoot ur other guys and keep movign forward towards him.

Also remember Crusaders are used mostly to transport stuff so that makes it easier for a mixed fex to clip him midway.

Give ur mixed fex chitin and exoskeleton and you can in most cases walk him across the whole board without getting him killed before he takes something big out.

[Merqu]

I believe I just noticed something... Are you thinking each bolter or pair of bolters counts as a seperate weapon? They don't. Each Hurrican bolter (6 bolters/3 pairs) is a weapon. So a weapon destroyed would take out an entire Hurrican Bolter.

Hope that helps! and if I misread then sorry ;D

[chicop76]

Originally Posted by Merqu

I believe I just noticed something... Are you thinking each bolter or pair of bolters counts as a separate weapon? They don't. Each Hurricane bolter (6 bolters/3 pairs) is a weapon. So a weapon destroyed would take out an entire Hurricane Bolter.

Hope that helps! and if I misread then sorry ;D

OK one hurricane bolter is 3 twin linked bolter. You have 2 of them which is 6 twin linked bolters. If I give landraider two weapon destroyed effects. Than there is no more hurricane bolters. In reality it's 12 bolters. If you're trying to say i have to blow up the weapons 12 times than that's whack. Hell even 6 times makes the thing worst.

[USAFTACP]

OK one hurricane bolter is 3 twin linked bolter. You have 2 of them which is 6 twin linked bolters. If I give landraider two weapon destroyed effects. Than there is no more hurricane bolters. In reality it's 12 bolters. If you're trying to say i have to blow up the weapons 12 times than that's whack. Hell even 6 times makes the thing worst.

You pretty much just reiterated what he already said...