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Carnifex troubles help needed!
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Old 12 Dec 2008, 01:35   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Carnifex troubles help needed!

I only have a small nid force, but i was wondering for my carnifex... I gave it a venom cannon but with the new edition glancing hits cant blow up vehicles. So do you guys think I should switch my venom cannon out for barbed strangler since it can get penetrating hits?


Your advice will be much appreciated.
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Old 12 Dec 2008, 02:10   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

It's generally better to specialize in either shooting or CC with to Carnifexes. Don't try to do both. Ranged Carnies come in 2 flavors, usually. 2 TL Devourers or a Barbed Strangler and Venom Cannon. I still both of these combos to be pretty effective, and BS/VC are still good at locking down vehicles.
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Old 13 Dec 2008, 01:28   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

Yes, don't associate "cant penetrate" as "worthless against vehicles". Under 4th edition there as only a 1-in-6 chance of a glancing hit destroying a vehicle. Now you can't blow them up, but you can still immobilize and destroy weapons.

If you were using the VC and relying on that 1-in-6 chance to pop a vehicle in 4th, you were playing the odds too much anyway. Just carry on as you did, and don't sweat it. It's still a great weapon. Having the Barbed Strangler as second weapon is also a good idea, as it gives you options.

Also remember that, with a VC/BS combo on a 'fex, there is absolutely no reason to take toxin sacs.
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Old 13 Dec 2008, 14:43   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

I feel that limitation on the VC, making it only ever able to inflict Glancing hits, is outdated and pointless. But, whateva. :P

As for your questions... A VC/Barbed Strangler (I'll use BS from here on) combo is still effective. Yes, a BS can inflict Penetrating, but it is only Strength 8 meaning it has a harder time in doing so; it'll also only ever glance on a 6 against AV14, while the VC has a 1/2 chance of Glancing a Monolith, or Land Raider, or such.

It'd help us help you if we knew the weapons and biomorphs currently on the Carnifex, and perhaps the rest of your army list, however small it is.
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Old 13 Dec 2008, 15:16   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

My venom cannon opinion has been humbled by the new land raider. So my new opinion is that the venom cannon is not a bad weapon due to the fact you can destroy weapons and cause pinning. I'll digress a little bit on it's strength's and flaws.

Strengths-
1. The venom cannon is a str 10 weapon on a fex with the ability to shoot twice. So it's really easy to cause an effect on a vehicle with them. If you give your fex a BS upgrade you will hit on a 4 and worst glance hit will be a 4. Not a bad success rate comparing with any other shooting you gonna get.

2. You will be able to tie up heavy duty vehicles, destroy their annoying weapons, or prevent them from shooting.

3. Against open topped vehicles it's awesome. Almost like a broadside suit with less range.

4. You have a 36" range with that weapon. So you can shoot from a decent range.

5. It's str 10. You realise you can have 9 str 10 shots with a nid army. That's just as much with tau's max str 10 shoots.

Cons-
1. Against Land Raiders, Monoliths, and anything else that ignores 1-2 results and have a ton of weapons on it. Against anything like this then I would say the venom cannon is not effective. But fortunately if you think about it. Not that many armies have an easy time against these things as well. Besides Tau.

2. You can destroy vehicles when you immobilise it and wipe out the weapons. You're not gonna get a result of 5-6 unless you're shooting at an open top.

Personally I'm thinking of dropping my venom cannons to try something different. But I live and die by the venom cannon. I suggest trying it out in 5-10 games and see how it works out. It may work for you or it may not. For nids it's not a bad antitank weapon. You just have to use some finesse with it that's all.

Oh. I do think it's overprice now due to everyone rule changes though. But I still like them though.
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Old 14 Dec 2008, 08:04   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

I have to disagree with people who say it's either sniper fex or cc fex.

Mixed fexes are IN people! try them.

Venom Cannon w/Talons works WONDERS. Forget the strangler and proxy a mix fex and you'll see why this works. Just remember DO NOT SIT BACK AND SHOOT. Always move and shoot, the point is to present a double threat to your opponent.

Usually with CC fexes the opponent doesnt want them close but doesnt worry about them from a range and if they can just fly away then they just laugh at your slow CC fex.

With sniper fexes, you usually dont want them in combat because well they just aren't all great in cc however the downside is that shooting a sniper fex at infantry is a waste of a VC shot and shooting them at vehicles is sorta a waste of a BS shot. This still gives you the best flexibility which is still a very good thing however consider the Mixed fex.

Your venom cannon can always be useful against vehicles! And if there are no vehicles you are also pretty good at Combat since the typical 'best' set up for carnifexes is 2x Talons, you are only losing 1 attack with a mixed fex! That's it, you can equip it similarly to a cc fex while still posing a big threat to any opponent within 36" of that venom cannon.

I urge everyone to give this a chance and see how it works. Proxy it if u will. I was a huge fan of sniper fexes during 4th edition, but 5th edition is definetly all about the mixed fexes.
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Old 14 Dec 2008, 15:30   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

Quote:
With sniper fexes, you usually dont want them in combat because well they just aren't all great in cc however the downside is that shooting a sniper fex at infantry is a waste of a VC shot and shooting them at vehicles is sorta a waste of a BS shot. This still gives you the best flexibility which is still a very good thing however consider the Mixed fex.
I disagree with this particular point. It all depends on your target priority. The Barbed Strangler, with it's S8, is still a threat to any vehicle, even more so to transports and other <AV 14 tanks. As for infantry, I never really waste my Sniperfex on them; that's what Devilfex or Hormogaunts are for. To get the most bang for your buck with a Sniperfex, it's a good idea to target the enemy's Elite units, which are generally large enough to make the blast from a BS effective, and durable enough to not make it a waste of a VC shot.

As for the rest, I'll have to try it out. To be honest I don't see how a mixed Fex could work considering if you Run to get into CC you sacrifice your VC/BS, and if you fire with that you'll only barely get a chance to use the Talons, if at all. But it's worth some investigation.
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Old 14 Dec 2008, 20:28   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

Quote:

As for the rest, I'll have to try it out. To be honest I don't see how a mixed Fex could work considering if you Run to get into CC you sacrifice your VC/BS, and if you fire with that you'll only barely get a chance to use the Talons, if at all. But it's worth some investigation.
Not true, you just run around blasting things with your VC, now your opponent will have to choose to try to throw things at it in CC to try to stop the shooting going on, or they'ss keep running away, enabling for you to keep popping them, and maybe you might get lucky and immobolise a vehicle and be able to assault it the same turn to finish it off.
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Old 14 Dec 2008, 21:28   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

Quote:
Originally Posted by takahashikun
Quote:

As for the rest, I'll have to try it out. To be honest I don't see how a mixed Fex could work considering if you Run to get into CC you sacrifice your VC/BS, and if you fire with that you'll only barely get a chance to use the Talons, if at all. But it's worth some investigation.
Not true, you just run around blasting things with your VC, now your opponent will have to choose to try to throw things at it in CC to try to stop the shooting going on, or they'ss keep running away, enabling for you to keep popping them, and maybe you might get lucky and immobolise a vehicle and be able to assault it the same turn to finish it off.
exactly.

the whole point of the mix VC/Talons combo is that you dont have to sit back and shoot nor do you have to run forward every turn to try to catch your prey.

you can just move up normally while shooting every turn. let your opponent know that you present a threat at range and in cc.
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Old 15 Dec 2008, 21:08   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Carnifex troubles help needed!

Sorry Akaiyou, going to have to disagree with you. Specializing will always be better than mixing. If you mix, not only will that unit not be as good at either than 2 specialized units will be, they are more of a points sink. If you plan on your mixed Fex to get in combat, you probably are investing points into CC biomorphs. This will make your mixed Fex less effective at both shooting and CC than a specialized Fex for both, and will cost more points. Sure, you could stick all the lovely CC biomorphs you would normally put on a CC Fex, and throw in a Venom Cannon instead of Scything Talons. Can it both shoot and engage in CC effectively? Yes. It is also costing more than a specialized Fex in either.

In casual games it's great. In tournament play throwing that extra 30+ points onto a CC Fex can really hurt you.
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