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Toxin Sacs and new poison rule
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Old 21 Oct 2008, 03:28   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

Alright. With the new rulebook safely in my hands, I've been looking over the poison rule. Now, with the way Toxin Sacs work currently, I had an idea. What if Toxin Sacs conferred the poison rule to the model instead of adding +1 to your strength? I had this discussion with my friends and they claimed it would be broken on Hormagaunts, because they could wound high toughness models. While it would be a poweful upgrade, I'm sure there could be a way to make it fair and balanced. I'm curious what you guys have to think about this. I would like to keep this discussion civil.
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Old 21 Oct 2008, 04:42   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

You want to give a 7 to 8 pt model the ability to wound on a 4+. Than they can hit on a 4+ on ws 6 and below. Lets say 15 of these guys assault a carnifex. That's 30 attacks on a charge, 15 hits, 7.5 wounds.

If you allow the poisonon the cheap models thry would easily kill big monsters that cost the same as the squad.

I say it's overpowered due to gaunts abusing it. I don't see nothing wrong with warriors with this ability.
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Old 21 Oct 2008, 11:35   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

I was thinking we could get rid of the option for regular gaunts to take the Toxin Sac option, and give them something else that would count for the current Toxin Sacs. Not sure where you got your math though. Yes, 15 of them would get 30 attacks, 15 of them would hit, then 7.5 of them would wound, and then that would be 2.5 wounds getting through with a 3+ save, or 1.3 wounds with a 2+ save.

I understand the problem with allowing the small guys to take it, but I don't think there couldn't be a way to make it fair. And I really see anything wrong with Warriors, Tyrants, Fexes, or Broodlords from getting it. But then what would we do with the option for Hormaguants, Rippers, and Stealers?
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 03:48   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

It would weaken our shooting so no, unless they increase the basic strength of our guns.

Personally i love our codex. Best Codex in the game IMO. We get to pretty much build our own units something that no other army can do. We decide the stats and the roles they play. Having toxin sacs as a 'poisoned' upgrade just doesn't fit IMO.

I think though that 'poisoned' weapons would go fine on warriors or raveners. Raveners already look like snakes so it's not a big stretch. I'll take the always wound on a 4+ over rending on them.
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 18:36   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

Or maybe a "Poison bite" mouth upgrade, like feeder tendrils, implant attack and toxic miasma could provide it?

Although the question is, do we really need access to the poison rule, with all the high strength critters we have, we usually dont have issues with wounding?
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 19:06   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

Akaiyou, I completely agree about our codex being one of the best in the game. However, if you read the 'fluff' on Toxin Sacs, it doesn't make sense the upgrade it gets; and that bothers me personally.

'Toxin Sacs give poisons which can range from agonizing paralytic neurotoxins to agressive necrotic enzymes which all are swimming with deadly Tyrannic phage cells.'

That doesn't strike me as conferrring a bonus the creature with the Toxin Sacs, but rather a penalty for the creature being struck. I think Adrenal Glands could offer a +1 stength bonus as well as WS and I, considering in humans adrenaline can temporarilly give someone superhuman strength.

Perhaps Toxin Sacs could deal additional wounds equal to the number of wounds already taken on a 6+ at the end of the shooting phase and assault phase to units that have been wounded by a model with Toxin Sacs. This could represent these toxins working against the systems of models that were wounded, but saved by their armour or such. I don't think it's a bad option. Just an opinion of mine.
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 21:54   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

Not everything in 40k matches up with the descriptions. If Toxin Sacs were to confer anything other than +s then they would be very over powered. As it is toxin sacs are pretty darned good!
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Old 22 Oct 2008, 23:48   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mage
Akaiyou, I completely agree about our codex being one of the best in the game. However, if you read the 'fluff' on Toxin Sacs, it doesn't make sense the upgrade it gets; and that bothers me personally.

'Toxin Sacs give poisons which can range from agonizing paralytic neurotoxins to agressive necrotic enzymes which all are swimming with deadly Tyrannic phage cells.'

That doesn't strike me as conferrring a bonus the creature with the Toxin Sacs, but rather a penalty for the creature being struck. I think Adrenal Glands could offer a +1 stength bonus as well as WS and I, considering in humans adrenaline can temporarilly give someone superhuman strength.

Perhaps Toxin Sacs could deal additional wounds equal to the number of wounds already taken on a 6+ at the end of the shooting phase and assault phase to units that have been wounded by a model with Toxin Sacs. This could represent these toxins working against the systems of models that were wounded, but saved by their armour or such. I don't think it's a bad option. Just an opinion of mine.
aw I see. I don't read fluff but from what you said, i'm with you. That would definetly make more sense.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 00:43   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

Trick2003, I'm not saying that Toxin Sacs aren't good and worth it to take. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense between what they do, and are 'supposed to do'. We can have another biomorph give the ability and name it something else that makes sense with fluff as well. And I'm not saying that we wouldn't see an increase with points for having the ability to possibly create more wounds.

And re-reading my suggestion, I see it's a little weird. What I'm suggesting is at the end of the relative phase, say a unit takes 3 wounds from a unit with Toxin Sacs, you roll a D6 for each of those wounds. On a 6, the unit takes another wound with armour saves allowed.

I don't think that would be over-powered, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what other people's opinions are on this issue.
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Old 23 Oct 2008, 01:06   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Toxin Sacs and new poison rule

Quote:
Originally Posted by Mage
Trick2003, I'm not saying that Toxin Sacs aren't good and worth it to take. I'm just saying it doesn't make sense between what they do, and are 'supposed to do'. We can have another biomorph give the ability and name it something else that makes sense with fluff as well. And I'm not saying that we wouldn't see an increase with points for having the ability to possibly create more wounds.

And re-reading my suggestion, I see it's a little weird. What I'm suggesting is at the end of the relative phase, say a unit takes 3 wounds from a unit with Toxin Sacs, you roll a D6 for each of those wounds. On a 6, the unit takes another wound with armour saves allowed.

I don't think that would be over-powered, but that's why I made this thread. I want to see what other people's opinions are on this issue.
I vote for Adrenal Glands (S)
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