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New Marines vs Nids.
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Old 13 Oct 2008, 08:28   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default New Marines vs Nids.

I'm still reading my new codex and trying to fix my computer. So i'll go over a few threats that we bugs have to face.

Iron Clad Dreadnaughts- Genestealers with rend at best can only glance this beast, unless you can hit him in the back.

The vehicle armour for the side and front is the 2nd best in the game, plus it has 1 more attack over a standard carnifex.

I believe a decent combat fex or tyrant can take this guy in combat.

Warp Blast and Venom Cannon is your ranged weapon of choice.

Landraider- You have 3 different types now. You have 1 tank with 2 really serious heavy flamers which kills marines dead.

The main change is the machine spirit. Pretty much the same but guess what no bs 2 anymore. So expect the landraider to still shoot back at you more effective now.

Hellfire rds- With this ammo the weapon wounds on a 2+. Which means more saves for our monsterous creatures.

Drop pods- Now due to 5th you don't have to have the troops with vehicles. So you should be able ds the pods with no troops. Why do this you might say.
A. You can now ds on the 1st turn with pods.

B. They now have pie plate weapons. Can't remember if it's large or small but they can really hurt your swarm list.

There is other stuff but I'm about to get off from work and my key pad on my pda is acting up.

With the new dex marines have really nice options that will make them a much harder army to beat. Honestly I used to expect an easy win against marines. But now expect a strong opponet to go against.
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Old 13 Oct 2008, 16:28   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Marines vs Nids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
I'm still reading my new codex and trying to fix my computer. So i'll go over a few threats that we bugs have to face.

Iron Clad Dreadnaughts- Genestealers with rend at best can only glance this beast, unless you can hit him in the back.

The vehicle armour for the side and front is the 2nd best in the game, plus it has 1 more attack over a standard carnifex.

I believe a decent combat fex or tyrant can take this guy in combat.

Warp Blast and Venom Cannon is your ranged weapon of choice.

Landraider- You have 3 different types now. You have 1 tank with 2 really serious heavy flamers which kills marines dead.

The main change is the machine spirit. Pretty much the same but guess what no bs 2 anymore. So expect the landraider to still shoot back at you more effective now.

Hellfire rds- With this ammo the weapon wounds on a 2+. Which means more saves for our monsterous creatures.

Drop pods- Now due to 5th you don't have to have the troops with vehicles. So you should be able ds the pods with no troops. Why do this you might say.
A. You can now ds on the 1st turn with pods.

B. They now have pie plate weapons. Can't remember if it's large or small but they can really hurt your swarm list.

There is other stuff but I'm about to get off from work and my key pad on my pda is acting up.

With the new dex marines have really nice options that will make them a much harder army to beat. Honestly I used to expect an easy win against marines. But now expect a strong opponet to go against.
Dude, genestealers can't target the side or back regardless. The rule is that you always hit against the front armour of any walker in assault, no matter what you just can't hit the back.

So the solution to these new walkers?

Hive Tyrants can easily take these guys out. Most common roll on 2D6 = 7. So you have great odds at getting a result of 13 to penetrate, that's more than 50% of the time you'll be scoring a glance or better with a str 6 tyrant.

Also Lictors can take these new dreadnaughts out if you can manage to get a rend, the lictor can pull off a penetration result of 15 enough to even take down a landraider.

So best idea is to hope that dreadnaught gets too close to area terrain and assault him with a combination of one or two lictors accompanied by a couple genestealers for insurance. Re-roll your missed hits and hold nothing back on the penetration rolls.

One other easy solution is Broodlords. Which essentially gives you the same odds as if you had a Lictor mixed in with genestealers. Outflank the dreadnaught and pounce on him with some lucky rolls even if you fail the dreadnaught only has 3 attacks while you have synapse and count as a upgrade character so he'll be stuck fighting you for at least 2 rounds.

Pretty much the gist of it is that you'll need str 5 or better + rending to really be able to destroy these guys in CC. Genestealers and Warriors can achieve this but that can get pricey fast. But you'll have a 1 in 3 chance to penetrate with the D3. Thats why I prefer things with str 6 and rending or monstrous creatures, since they can take AV13 down with ease after scoring a 6.
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Old 13 Oct 2008, 18:03   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Marines vs Nids.

Hq- Well I don't really see anyone that can take on a combat fex or combat tyrant and expect to win. You do have some nasty stuff to face like str6 weapons in int order and abilities like re-rolling meltas, plasma, and flame weapons for the whole army. I'll say the worst one is the tank commander. The tank commander will make it harder for you to stop a landraider for example. Also be wary of the template of doom. Just think a tau railgun as a large blast template. Fortunately your opponet can only do it twice at the most. The plus side is insta kill is back on the menu now. Calgar is the only exception.

Storm Sheild- If you have this gear no xtra attack, but guess what. The model get a marine save, but it's invulnerable instead. Which means storm sheild terminaters can withstand a single monsterous creature attack. So you will have to throw more bodies at these guys to take them out.

Drop Pod- expect large blast templates that can wound your gaunts on 2. So I really wouldn't just ignore the actual drop pod. On the brightside venom cannons can take them out. Downside is the model with the upgrade is very cheap.

Scouts on bikes- Lots of anti-gaunt options. Venom cannon is really good against these guys.

Sternguard- These guys should be high on your target priority. They have the ability to handle anything by shooting at it. In rapid fire range they can kill a normal tyrant or fex. Also they can kill like 14 gaunts in one rapid fire volley. Extened carp or genestealers means nothing to these guys. Plus don't expect the cover save to help you too much as well.

Thunderfire Cannon- Are you for real. Can potentially wipe out a full squad of gaunts. Very deadly anti-swarm weapon.

Whirlwind- expect no cover save. I can see atleast two whirlwinds as a hvy really easy now. So for those of you that like to lurk in cover the whirlwind can get rid of that +2 cover save.

Well that's mostly the stuff that will give us some problems. I didn't mention stuff like the tech marine hq blast template from hell. But I just wanted to let yall know what will hurt us. I see a lot more template weapons big and small out there.

I think a hvy creature list will do fine. But a swarm list will take a lot more casualties to the marine shooting now.
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Old 14 Oct 2008, 22:16   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: New Marines vs Nids.

I've been beating marines like red-headed stepchildren since 5th came out with my swarm list.

It boils down to area control, really. Four gaunt swarms at 20 models each and control alot of battlefield, and when you run to objectives and sit on them, you're difficult to pry off. The marine player fields smaller units, and every unsaved wound on them is a telling affair. With the proliferation of cover saves, it takes him much longer to wear me down than vice versa. The only doom is from assault, believe it or not, where regular gaunt swarms die in droves to marines due to the fearless rules.
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Old 14 Oct 2008, 22:33   #5 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: New Marines vs Nids.

I'm talking about the effects of the new codex. Before the new codex I always get a very easy win. I havn't played the new marines yet, but I seen some sick stuff. Swarms can get hit with like 10 large templates a turn now. Just saying the new codex has given them a lot better weapons to deal with our kind.
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