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Old 08 Oct 2008, 14:27   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default quick question

ok I know I have posted this before, but to double check and to get specific rules to combat this guy.

I play tau, so sorry if I get the names of the units a little wrong.

My buddy plays nids, and uses a Broodlord, with infiltrate, and gives them a retinue with the 5-10 genestealers, and gives them something that gives them scout. Before the game starts he infiltrates then scouts with the same unit. My arguement is the BOB says that the unit and his retinu can not give each other qualities, such as if the genes dont have infiltrate and the Broodlord does it doesnt pass that to the genes, and vica versa. But he says that since he is counted as an "upgraded unit" rather than him having a retinu that the rule that I state doesnt apply.

could the nid players in here help me out, am I wrong?


Mr. Brown, please tidy up this post. It is difficult to read. If we can't understand what you are trying to ask, we cannot give you an accurate answer. Thanks for giving attention to this. ~77
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 14:40   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: quick question

The thing with the Broodlord is that he SPECIFICALLY gives the retinue Infiltrate, but they lose Fleet. Now, I'm not totally familiar with the new rulebook (Don't have it myself), but based on what you stated about retinues, my opinion is no. This is because the retinue can't fleet, even though the genestealers have, the broodlord doesn't. Thus, even in the Genestealers have scuttler, the Broodlord doesn't, thus they can't use it.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 15:00   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: quick question

That sounds about right. When an Independent Character (IC) joins a squad they don't share special abilities between the two groups (the squad and the IC). However the rulebooks says an IC with a retinue is considered an upgrade character until the entire retinue is dead. Because the whole IC section of rules is only applied to ICs (and not upgrade characters) it might make sense that the rule saying abilities aren't shared is then moot. However, there is also no rule there or anywhere else that says abilities are shared (unless specific [such as the Broodlord's infiltrate ability]). If a model in a unit, for example a Broodlord joining Genestealers, doesn't have fleet, why would it when joining a squad that doesn't share the ability then be able to? It doesn't, based on the rules. And that exactly ends the problem. The Genestealers have scout if they were given scuttlers, and if they were alone they could have scouted ahead, but because they are with a Broodlord who doesn't have/receive the ability then they have to slow down to keep pace with the slowest member (in this case the Broodlord.)
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 15:10   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: quick question

thats exactly what I thought, and this allows him to get within, 6 inches of me BEFORE the game even starts, so if he get the first turn he assaults before I can even do anything, infiltrate and scouting with the same unit, I dont think should be allowed.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 18:42   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: quick question

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=72471.0

here, basically the same question
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 18:52   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: quick question

I know thats the same question, I wrote it. I didnt want to post in that thread, and revive an old thread, so I created a new one. I am trying to determine if the retine rule applies or if he is an upgraded unit, and if only the broodlord can't use the scout rule couldn't he just keep the brrodlord in place, and advance the rest of the genes with the scout ability upto 6 inches create a single file line up to the 6 inch max, and then move his 6 and then assault his 6 inches and still assault in the first turn.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 19:47   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: quick question

I'm not sure. Off the top of my head I'd say "maybe" at best, however looking over the book I don't think it says their abilities are removed because the IC doesn't have them, it just saying they don't share it. So I guess they'd still have the scout ability. The rules for scout don't say that "the unit" scouts, but rather "the scouts" scout. That is, "the unit" can't scout because the Broodlord doesn't have it, but that doesn't mean "the scouts" (the Genestealers) can't scout.

With that, I'd say sure the Genestealers can scout ahead while the Broodlord stands still. Also noting, that while scouting you must remain at least 12" away from all enemy models. You also need to chain back to the Broodlord no more than 2" apart from each Genestealer.

Here's a question, to infiltrate 12" away you have to have a blocked LoS. Imagine you are standing at the corner of a building so that the enemy can't see you. (Disregarding Scout and Fleet) is it possible to make a first turn assault? Wouldn't crossing around the corner of a building take up some of the 6" movement + 6" charge to make an assault?

Anyway, I had a scenario typed up, but I think it's rather un-intriguing so I'll just skip it. It had to do with the Broodlord squad assaulting after an infiltrate + scout and the Broodlord missing the first round of combat. I was going to ask if you think it'd be worth it to have a Broodlord squad where the Broodlord missed that first round compared to a basic squad of Genestealers with scout.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 20:16   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: quick question

The Broodlord conveys Infiltrate to his retinue because his rules say so. The Broodlord cannot leave his retinue, and his unit does not convey the 'Scouts' rule to him, so the unit cannot 'Scout'. In other words, unless the Broodlord is killed within the first 1 or 2 turns of the game, purchasing the Scuttlers upgrade for his retinue is a waste of points.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 22:51   #9 (permalink)
77
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Default Re: quick question

Quote:
Originally Posted by IcyCool
The Broodlord conveys Infiltrate to his retinue because his rules say so. The Broodlord cannot leave his retinue, and his unit does not convey the 'Scouts' rule to him, so the unit cannot 'Scout'. In other words, unless the Broodlord is killed within the first 1 or 2 turns of the game, purchasing the Scuttlers upgrade for his retinue is a waste of points.
Actually, the only way that your Genestealer retinue can take advantage of Scuttlers is if the Broodlord is killed before deployment.... :P

Don't take Scuttlers on the retinue. They cannot be used. At best, the Broodlord and Co. can infiltrate 12.01" away from you. There can not be a turn 1 assault with them unless your opponent is moving towards them.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 23:10   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: quick question

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77
Actually, the only way that your Genestealer retinue can take advantage of Scuttlers is if the Broodlord is killed before deployment.... :P
Bleh, you are correct.

I know that some units possess an ability to fire at a deepstriking units, does it also apply to infiltrating units? How does the timing on that work?
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