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Tyranids Anti Tank Options
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 08:06   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Tyranids Anti Tank Options

Hello boys and bugs

I took a little leave from 40K over the summer months and i have come back with this new edition. I have notice that Tanks could be a real problem now with the new Tank damage table and the fact that rending got nerfed.

So what's a bug to do? What are the best choices in taking out the heavy armour.
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Old 08 Oct 2008, 12:42   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

As far as Tyranids ranged symbiotes go, the venom cannon has entirely lost the ability to land even a lucky hit to destroy a tank (glancing infers -2 on the damage table, and lo behold, only 5 and 6 destroy a tank). This leaves the barbed stranger, at its max strength it can't penetrate those nasty AV 14 vehicles. While a focussed blast from a Zoanthrope is useful for tank hunting, I doubt it would get there in time. And finally close combat, just send an increasingly popular close combat fex running up the field and whack that vehicle on its back armor with S 10 plus MC bonuses.

It is in Nids nature to be better at cc than ranged, the same is true for tank hunting; especially now that the fex can get an extra D6 every turn its not assaulting.
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Old 09 Oct 2008, 03:33   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

I completely disagree with the poster above.

Truth is that the venom cannon is our best ranged anti-tank weapon. The thing you need to consider is that 'anti-tank' is more than just wrecking or destroying a vehicle. Every stunned/armament destroyed result is acceptable as well. And the venom cannon will get you these! effectively preventing vehicles from firing on your units! Which is what you ultimately want.

So what if you can't destroy a vehicle with shooting? Armament destroying and Immobilizing it will leave it completely helpless for your regular cc units to get in there and finish the job. And remember if you get immobilzed or armament destroyed while u are already immobilized and have no weapons to destroy than you get wrecked! so you still do have a chance at destroying a handicap vehicle.

The best choice is to take mixed fexes with venom cannon and st for anti-vehicle duties. then just walk them up to the vehicle stunning it or immobilizing it or what not and close in for the kill.
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Old 13 Oct 2008, 07:42   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

I agree with the poster above. I fought armoured company before and did very well against it with 4 warp blast, 1 venom/deathspitting tyrant, 2 barbed stranglers, and 4 venom cannon shots.

My shots basically prevented the vehicles from moving and shooting, while my warp blast and genestealers raped the tanks. On a rend you can dish out 6-13. Which can defeat armour 10, without a great chance of the vehicle from blowing up.

Rending is still effective against tanks, just don't expect to easily take out a landraider or monolith with it.

Overall tyranids can excell against heavy vehicle list. Expecally nidzilla due to monsterous creatures are fearless and it takes 4 wounds to kill nid monsterous creatures, while vehicles can die or can't shoot due to one shot.
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Old 14 Oct 2008, 19:05   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

I'm going to have to agree to disagree.

Rending is crap. It cannot be relied on, and occurs too infrequently to let the small bonus it supplies be something to plan on.

Furthermore, there are times you want to, or have to, KILL a vehicle, rather than inconvenience it. Keep in mind that the firepower it takes to inconvenience a vehicle every turn can be better spent elsewhere. That vehicle is hogging your resources and tying up potent fire that could be killing troops in a S&C scenario. In a killpoint game, duh, you want to kill the vehicle.

Venom cannons are okay for open topped vehicles, but for most games I'd rather be melting troops. Glancing blows(I mean the verb, pun not intended), and I want results from my fire, not a stalemate that neutralizes any number of points from my force. At the end of the day, it's all about the melee for killing vehicles, and nominally it requires MCs to do it. Sure, you can hope your STR 5 or 6 units pull it off, but nothing says "Pwn you in the face" like a Monstrous Creature gleefully tearing a vehicle apart to see what's making that rattling noise inside.

If you want results, use the resources to ensure them. Do not rely on the unreliable.
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Old 14 Oct 2008, 20:00   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

I woudn't say rending is crap, but it's not as reliable as it used to be. However, I will still use a brood of Genestealers to take down tanks, considering attacks are against rear armour now. There are a lot of other options though. We can use Zoanthropes to crack tanks, Barbed Stranglers have the potential, Carnifexes, Broodlords, and Hive Tyrants are just some of the non-glancing units we can use.

However, I think you're missing out on something here, Midnight. Just becuase you don't kill a tank on the first go, doesn't mean the firepower is best spent elsewhere. I would gladly keep a Dreadnought, Vindicator, Lemon Russ (either variant), Whirlwind, or any other tank stunned every turn till I can reliably take it out. Each turn that vehicle isn't firing, is one less giant pain in my ass shooting at my troops. I will GLADLY keep a 176 point brood attacking a 200 something point tank to keep it from doing anything, till something else can take it down, or they do it themselves.
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Old 14 Oct 2008, 20:23   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

I crack tanks with Warp Blast, MCs, and Broodlords & Lictors.

I've done it with broods of Genestealers before, but generally if I'm hunting tanks with them, it's cleanup. I usually have better prey to be throwing them at.

My Lictor has been a reliable tank smasher since 5th started, STR6, Rending & we're hitting Rear Armor in CC, so against a lot it's pretty decent. You're not going to smash a Monolith with it, but then, nothing short of really heavy hitters like Focused Warp Blast, CC Carnifex, or a few shots off a VC to shut it down via Immobilize & weapon destroyed results are going to anyway.

I still like to have a few Zoanthropes on hand for Warp Blast though, particularly if I'm going to be facing skimmers, they're just generally too hard to take out in CC, getting to them is a pain, and you're usually only hitting on 6's. If I know I'm up against a number of skimmers I'd take a Sniperfex over a CC fex still, even with the glancing nerf, but not knowing what my opponent is running I'll rely on Zoanthropes for the ranged, and take a CC fex these Days.

Flying HTs are great for Vehicle smashing too. I've wrecked a number of them since 5th with my Outflanking Broodlord too.

I guess it all depends, we have a number of great options availble to us.
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Old 14 Oct 2008, 22:24   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

Forgot to mention twin linked devourer carnifex. That's 8 str 6 shots that can easily take out light vehicles. In 5th you can actually pin with them now.
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Old 15 Oct 2008, 04:33   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

Quote:
Originally Posted by Midnight
I'm going to have to agree to disagree.

Rending is Klkn. It cannot be relied on, and occurs too infrequently to let the small bonus it supplies be something to plan on.

Furthermore, there are times you want to, or have to, KILL a vehicle, rather than inconvenience it. Keep in mind that the firepower it takes to inconvenience a vehicle every turn can be better spent elsewhere. That vehicle is hogging your resources and tying up potent fire that could be killing troops in a S&C scenario. In a killpoint game, duh, you want to kill the vehicle.

Venom cannons are okay for open topped vehicles, but for most games I'd rather be melting troops. Glancing blows(I mean the verb, pun not intended), and I want results from my fire, not a stalemate that neutralizes any number of points from my force. At the end of the day, it's all about the melee for killing vehicles, and nominally it requires MCs to do it. Sure, you can hope your STR 5 or 6 units pull it off, but nothing says "Pwn you in the face" like a Monstrous Creature gleefully tearing a vehicle apart to see what's making that rattling noise inside.

If you want results, use the resources to ensure them. Do not rely on the unreliable.
Looks like more people agree with me on this one buddy. And yes I agree with you that some times you want to kill a vehicle rather than inconvenience it.

However look at it this way. Vehicles can move 12" whenever they choose, that means that if they please, you'll never get an assault on a vehicle because it can simply keep moving 12" away from your CC fex even if you run you only run D6 and you won't always be rolling 6s. So the vehicle is faster and more mobile. If you slap a venom cannon onto that same CC fex, you give up 1 attack and now you have the wonderful ability of stunning or immobilizing the vehicle preventing it from running anywhere and thus MUCH easier to take out than what any cc only fex could achieve.
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Old 16 Oct 2008, 00:05   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Tyranids Anti Tank Options

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Originally Posted by Akaiyou
Looks like more people agree with me on this one buddy.
Uhh... whatever. Does that make you feel better, or something?

Quote:
However look at it this way. Vehicles can move 12" whenever they choose, that means that if they please, you'll never get an assault on a vehicle because it can simply keep moving 12" away from your CC fex even if you run you only run D6 and you won't always be rolling 6s. So the vehicle is faster and more mobile. If you slap a venom cannon onto that same CC fex, you give up 1 attack and now you have the wonderful ability of stunning or immobilizing the vehicle preventing it from running anywhere and thus MUCH easier to take out than what any cc only fex could achieve.
I suppose that would be the case if you only ever used CC 'fexes to combat vehicles. I don't. Many units in the hive mind fleet can move 12", charge 12", fleet, fly, and/or fleet-of-wing. MCs are the best option by far, and the most reliable. However, given little choice on the mats, I will use what resources I have available to me. Additionally, when extra armor is inexpensive, stunning vehicles becomes a thing of the past.

Your english is sometimes difficult to navigate through -- I would advise spending a bit of time on sentence structure and punctuation. I'm pretty sure I've gotten the gist of your arguments correctly, but I may miss specifics points in your formatting.
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