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Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 22:58   #1 (permalink)
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Default Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

GENESTEALER
My analysis
BIOMORPHS
Acid Maw - MAYBE - Taking this means you can't take feeder tendrils or flesh hooks. So why take it? This biomorph becomes deadly when you have a support unit with feeder tendrils nearby. It allows your stealers to re-roll everything during the first round of combat. On the smallest brood of 6 this will boost your average 2 rends on the charge, to 3 or 4 rends. Very useful against terminators and the like. However the upgrade costs as much as EC making it VERY pricey. Only take this if u plan on using other units with Feeder Tendrils. EDIT: Acid Maw also becomes much more effective vs. high toughness models
Extended Carapace - MAYBE - This is arguably one the best upgrade for genestealers, helps a lot in CC and can help them survive small weapons fire. However it is high on the price tag per model it could be argued that it's best to take 1 or 2 more stealers than to give a brood this upgrade.
Feeder Tendrils - YES - Potentially the best ugprade to give your genestealers. A must-have except for when you already have a bunch of units with this skill in which case you can go with something else as you get to spread this ability around across your army even with just one brood. The ability to re-roll your missed attacks makes up greatly for the change to the rending rules. The more hits you get the more chances to rend you'll have.
Flesh Hooks - YES - This upgrade is ever so useful and dirt cheap however it prevents you from taking acid maw and/or feeder tendrils. This is a mandatory upgrade that you just NEED to have if you arent taking tendrils. Genestealers going at I1 is horrible if you plan on assaulting through difficult terrain, and with the abundance of cover and terrain this is definetly a must have.
Implant Attack - NO - While it's a powerful upgrade this is really only useful against specific targets and let's face it the high point cost per model makes this very inneffective. You'd be better off aiming a Tyrant or Carnifex at those targets.
Scuttlers - MAYBE - I personally LOVE this biomorph. It gives you the chance to assault in the 1st turn (only if your opponent deploys at the line and you happen to roll a 6 on RUN). This will also allow you to come in from the flanks which can be a very good strategy against any opponent. The upgrade is a bit expensive however so should be used with moderation and only on really cost effective units to make it worth the points.
Toxin Sacs - Maybe - Genestealers are there to try and rend things. This upgrade is now more useful due to the loss of effectiveness in rending, however it costs quite a bit and talons are better at making their points back. Taking this along with tendrils makes a pretty good unit capable of making their points back fast but there are better options and this doesnt help much for rending purposes which is it's biggest drawback.

WEAPON SYMBIOTES
Close Combat

=========
Scything Talons - YES - This upgrade will give you +1 attacks which is really really good with the nerf on rending. However it costs as much as adding EC it's a very expensive upgrade per model to add on. However of all offensive upgrades this is the best one next to feeder tendrils, and will allow you to make your points back quickly.

Recommended Configurations To Use
GENERAL RECOMMENDATION
I personally do NOT like taking large broods, i rather take 2 broods of 6 than 1 brood of 12. I find them just as effective. I also do NOT like taking EC, I rather hide them behind other units, as I see it genestealers are our army's pride and joy even other armies are forced to speak highly of them so we usually take great care in protecting them from enemy fire, so the real bonus of EC is for survivability IN combat. But the point cost just turns me off as I rather take extra stealers or use all those points somewhere else in my force. EC is still a good upgrade tho make no mistake but i leave that up to your own discreation. Same with ST it's very pricey same as EC so i tend to lean towards saving the points and just getting an extra stealer if i want more attacks, plus i get the bonus of having an extra wound in the unit.

8 Genestealers @ 168 Pts
Feeder Tendrils; Rending Claws; Scything Talons


- Extra attacks and re-rolling missed hits. This is the most cost effective set up for genestealers, able to make their points back the fastest. However they are also the most expensive set up so beware of the high cost as long as you can make it into combat they'll perform greatly. Rating 10/10

8 Genestealers @ 160 Pts
Feeder Tendrils; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Rending Claws


- Nearly as good as taking talons but not quite. This is the 2nd most cost effective takes only slightly longer than the talons+tendrils variation at making their points back and is a bit cheaper to field. A great option very highly recommended Rating 9/10


6 Genestealers @ 102 Pts
Feeder Tendrils;


- My new personal favorite due to the ridiculously cheap cost of adding tendrils and it's many usefulness. All the same benefits of having small easy to hide units and low point cost. Plus i only need to have 1 or 2 of these units to provide enough support for everyone in the army if played correctly. Rating 8/10

6 Genestealers @ 120 Pts
Rending Claws; Scything Talons


- Lots of attacks and but somewhat expensive. This works REALLY well if you have a brood with feeder tendrils in the vicinity so take this only if you have something else that's going to be close offering preferred enemy benefits. Rating 6/10

6 Genestealers @ 114 Pts
Toxin Sacs +1 St; Rending Claws


- Decent set up but again take it only when you have other units giving preferred enemy benefits within range to make the most out of this. Rating 6/10

6 Genestealers @ 126 Pts
Extended Carapace +1 Save; Feeder Tendrils; Rending Claws


- This is more effective than taking basic stealers, all though more expensive you can make your points back easier than taking them plain and your stealers will last longer due to the EC. This is a very good way of supporting the rest of the army or having one of these units to offer preferred enemy to other genestealer squads. Rating 6/10

6 Genestealers @ 96 Pts

- My old personal favorite, the standard genestealers, in the smallest possible brood. Low point cost, easy to hide and deadly in combat. The benefit of taking small groups is that you can field more of everything else including other small un-upgraded groups to present a bigger threat to the enemy. However as mentioned earlier taking upgrades makes genestealers more cost effective. Rating 5/10
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Old 26 Sep 2008, 02:45   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

Scuttle allows you to flank. With this ability you could safely have your genestealers come from the sides of the board. Partically helpful if you playing quarters where your enemy starts 0 - 24" from the side of the boars. Your genestealers have a 11"- 18" striking distance to attack. So in quarters warfare scuttle genestealers is a great asset.
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Old 26 Sep 2008, 07:39   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
Scuttle allows you to flank. With this ability you could safely have your genestealers come from the sides of the board. Partically helpful if you playing quarters where your enemy starts 0 - 24" from the side of the boars. Your genestealers have a 11"- 18" striking distance to attack. So in quarters warfare scuttle genestealers is a great asset.
i'm a little confused...were you correcting my scuttlers entry or were you supporting it?

I stated scuttlers are a maybe, i don't think it's a must have, do you?
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Old 26 Sep 2008, 19:30   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

You mentioned the 6" move but failed to mention that they can outflank. The outflank move makes them abit better now.
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Old 26 Sep 2008, 19:40   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
You mentioned the 6" move but failed to mention that they can outflank. The outflank move makes them abit better now.
mmmm i think you should re-read the post bro.

Quote:
Scuttlers - MAYBE - I personally LOVE this biomorph. It gives you the chance to assault in the 1st turn (only if your opponent deploys at the line and you happen to roll a 6 on RUN). This will also allow you to come in from the flanks
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Old 27 Sep 2008, 00:22   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

Your preferred enemy comment still mentions having to re-roll all dice for each model. Wasn't it cleared up that you re-roll only the misses? Or did you just not edit your post?
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Old 27 Sep 2008, 05:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

Quote:
Originally Posted by Xanzar
Your preferred enemy comment still mentions having to re-roll all dice for each model. Wasn't it cleared up that you re-roll only the misses? Or did you just not edit your post?
haven't edited it yet, will do so.
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Old 27 Sep 2008, 15:23   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

There are a couple of things that I would like to address here.

I disagree with the matter of minimum size broods. Your impact in assault increases dramatically as you increase the bodies. I have had excellent experience with broods of 8-10. This is especially true on the charge. Genestealers having Fleet means that the odds are good that you will get the charge as long as you consider your movement well. Taking small brood of Genestealers may give you a smaller footprint, but you are really not taking advantage of your initiative. It is rare that you are not going to strike first, and so your impact needs to be big. The more bodies that are in your unit, the greater the impact you will have in those first couple rounds of CC. I used to only take broods of six, but found that they did not make near the deciding impact once they were in CC than something like a unit of 8 or 10.

The fact that they are troops also adds the need for larger numbers for the sake of resilience. Those extra 2-4 wounds in each unit will help keep them a scoring threat. I know that Scything Talons can give the extra attack, but when you spread that cost out, what you pay for 4 genestealers to get an extra attack (+4A), for the same price you get +2A (+3 on charge) and +1W. It is somewhat akin to taking TS on Termagants because they will wound easier in CC. Getting the bodies in are better than high price models.

Also, where's the Flesh Hooks?

In 4th ed., my stock set up was Genestealers with Flesh Hooks. It allowed me to take an angle of approach that would not be impeded by terrain,keeping them out of sight until they pounced. I still did not like charging into cover, but it allowed me a reasonable option if I had to. Now in 5th, flesh hooks allow our genestealers of dislodging that pesky unit that stays in cover, banking that you will not charge them. Re-rolling to hit won't make a big difference if you cannot get there over impassible terrain or lose half the unit to incoming attacks. I think that the basic Genestealer with Flesh Hooks is still a great option and also remains cost effective.

If you are determined that you need the re-roll to hit, the Feeder Tendrils is a good option as well, but may restrict how you move on the table and locks you into assaulting units that are in the open. I would suggest merely coordinating your attacks with a Lictor to gain the benefit of Feeder Tendrils while still being able to retain your Flesh Hooks.

I know that Scuttlers is getting good reviews, but with its point cost, I would ensure that you can swing a plan with them no matter which side they may show up on. Using a Lictor, again, would help being them in shorter order.

I like Genestealers. I think that they are worth taking in every list that you make. In a 1500 point game, I typically like to take a 1:1 ratio of gaunt units to genestealer units in a balanced list. I would not start taking Scuttling Genestealers until I had two other Genestealer units on the table. This way, the Scuttling brood should be able to coordinate their attacks with another unit and keep the threat level very high. You opponent is carefully watching two units on the table and then you say that another is coming in on the flank, that will fluster him.

If I were playing a Genestealer/Vanguard army, I would follow this same approach and not have more than 2 units of Genestealers that could outflank. As cool as moving in that way is, you don't want your army coming in piece-meal so that your opponent can manage the threat one at a time. If you take Scuttling Genestealers, couple their effectiveness with a Lictor. You will get the reserves re-roll and then you can team up for some re-roll-to-hit-rending-goodness.
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Old 27 Sep 2008, 19:59   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

Oh well I did say that flesh hooks are one of the best choices however tendrils are preferred (no pun intended)

If you aren't taking tendrils then take flesh hooks and I also made a mention that if you are taking a unit with tendrils you can then equip the other units differently as you really only need one good unit with tendrils to spread out the benefit to your whole army (depending on the broodsize and your army size). Lictors are not quite as useful at spreading about tendril benefits to the rest of the army because they simply aren't that reliable or fast.

You are restricted to deploying them in area terrain and on top of that they can't move when they come in. So the area terrain available might be in a bad spot and you can't deploy him in an area terrain that's already full of other models since you can't be within 1" in the end the best way to get those tendril benefits is through genestealers and thus it gives it so much more value.

Also when did you ever have to target enemy units sitting on impassible terrain?? Unless playing other tyranids, as far as I know no other armies can climb up impassible terrain and sit there (thus why it's impassible to all but the nids).
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Old 27 Sep 2008, 22:41   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Genestealers

I agree with 77. He pretty much took the words out of my mouth and said it a lot better.
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