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Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Hive Tyrant
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Old 21 Sep 2008, 23:15   #1 (permalink)
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Default Equipping Tyranids for 5th ed. - Hive Tyrant

HIVE TYRANT
My analysis
BIOMORPHS
Acid Maw - YES - Is better than Bio-plasma, make your hits count in CC the first turn of combat could be seen as your golden opportunity to cripple whatever you assault before you get killed.
Adrenal Glands (I) - MAYBE - good for CC
Adrenal Glands (WS) - MAYBE - good for CC
Bio-Plasma - MAYBE - Acid Maw is simply better and you can't take both. Bio-plasma also gets no benefit from Monstrous Creature status and on a Tyrant this makes it ineffective against tanks being only strength 6/7 + D6 for penetration. However on a Winged Tyrant this can find some use if you need to chase down vehicles moving at crusing speed or higher
Enhanced Senses - YES - Must have for shooting.
Extended Carapace - NO - Too many points, Warp Field better on a Winged Tyrant. It's possible to get cover saves for the unit if you add in Tyrant Guard on a walk tyrant.
Flesh Hooks - MAYBE - Useful only for CC Tyrants. And only against units huggin cover.
Implant Attack - YES - great for CC specially against characters. Do not take if you are not planning on fighting multi-wound models.
Symbiote Rippers - NO - Pointless upgrade.
Toxic Miasma - NO - not so great anymore so simply do not take this unless you are building a character killer Tyrant and want to max out
Toxin Sacs - YES - always take this biomorph!
Winged - YES - Extremely useful makes your Tyrant really fast able to reach opponents faster.

WEAPON SYMBIOTES
Close Combat

=========
Lash Whip & Bonesword - MAYBE - If you want Catalyst this is great. It's a good upgrade on a CC or MIXED Tyrant (walk and shoot). Otherwise there's better stuff.
Rending Claws - NO - useless upgrade, specially with new Rending rules.
Scything Talons - YES - Best choise for CC.


Ranged
=====
Barbed Strangler - Maybe - Good anti-infantry and ranged, but unless facing tons of large units you risk missing completely or greatly most of the time.
Venom Cannon - YES - Great against light/medium tanks and able to instant kill T4 multi-wound models.
Spinefists - NO - That's a waste for a Tyrant.
TL Barbed Strangler - Maybe - Better anti-infantry than a single strangler. The re-roll can be golden when you only have 1/3rd chance to hit
TL Devourer - YES - overall the best shooty weapon for the Tyrant vs infantry. 2 of these will decimate any type of infantry.
TL Deathspitter - MAYBE - Haven't experimented with these but could be useful. I'd still rather let warriors handle these tho.
TL Venom Cannon - MAYBE - If you want to guarantee the damage then take it. Otherwise you have better options as this can be a VERY pricey configuration.

PSYCHIC POWERS
Catalyst - NO - If you want this power use Bonesword.
Psychic Scream - YES - Very useful against non-fearless units. This power works best when you keep a squad of zoanthropes with the same power close.
The Shadow In The Warp - NO - All other powers are more useful.
Warp Blast - YES - Always a good choice on a CC Tyrant if you want to do some light shooting before getting in combat. Otherwise always take the next power.
Warp Field - YES - hands down the best psychic power since it's our only way of getting an invulnerable. however be warned that since we can now get cover saves from our own units this has lost some of it's usefulness but all in all it works really well with a Winged Tyrant of any kind. If you are adding wings, take this power!


Recommended Configurations To Use
GENERAL RECOMMENDATION
The tyrant is powerful very powerful but you need to really think about how you want to use his power in your army. Either use him to compliment the rest of your armies or use slap wings on him and use him to hunt specific targets. The winged tyrants are very useful and you should always first make a winged tyrant and then a walking one. There's good reason why there's a 0-1 limit on winged tyrants.


1 Hive Tyrant @ 196 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Twin-linked Devourer (x2); Warp Field


- This guys is a total monster against infantry, will land about 9 - 10 wounds on damn near any kind of enemy infantry. Rating 10/10

1 Hive Tyrant @ 221 Pts
Acid Maw; Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Extended Carapace +1 Save; Flesh Hooks; Implant Attack; Toxic Miasma; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Scything Talons (x1); Venom Cannon


- I've found this build to be very effective and flexible. It's a walking version of the winged CC tyrant but better because he can hurt tanks and instant kill multi-wound T4 models with the venom cannon. And he can do this while pressing forward towards CC where he can take down hard to kill enemies and character hunt. Rating 9/10

1 Hive Tyrant @ 149 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Devourer (x1); Venom Cannon


- Dual purpose Tyrant. Best use as a forward synapse unit can damage light tanks and cause good damage to infantry before possibly assaulting them. He can pump 9 shots into infantry with about 6-8 wounds guaranteed each time. keep him behind other models to get cover saves. A very inexpensive tyrant with good capabilities vs vehicles and infantry alike Rating 8/10

1 Hive Tyrant @ 137 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Barbed Strangler


- Cheap! And highly useful against all types of infantry. the str 5 big template will let you wound most things on 2s or 3s, and still hurt the tougher infantry models on 4s. With the possibility of pinning any unit it damages. The highlight is that he's so cheap easily making his points back. Rating 8/10

1 Hive Tyrant @ 225 Pts
Acid Maw; Adrenal Glands +1 In; Adrenal Glands +1 WS; Implant Attack; Toxic Miasma; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Winged; Scything Talons (x2); Warp Field


- Character killer. He's really strong but that will work against you, opponents normally get scared when they see him approaching and will try to shoot him down so move him behind cover if you need to make him run behind other models to get a cover save and procted him until you are in range to attack. Rating 8/10

1 Hive Tyrant @ 129 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Barbed Strangler; Twin-linked Devourer (x1);


- Cheapest tyrant. Great for moving synapse, within 18" of an enemy infantry unit will decimate whatever it hits. Rating 7/10

1 Hive Tyrant @ 177 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Twin-linked Venom Cannon


- Anti-Light/Medium armor Vehicles. This guy can keep any mid armor vehicle at bay! Do not expect to destroy vehicles but rather expect to easily incapacitate them. He comes in handy working together with a group of sniper fexes against heavy MECH armies. Rating 6/10

1 Hive Tyrant @ 157 Pts
Enhanced Senses +1 BS; Toxin Sacs +1 St; Barbed Strangler; Venom Cannon


- Dual purpose Tyrant able to take on light tanks and infantry from a good range! Very useful and versatile. However has a MAJOR flaw of not having any specialty. the strangler sucks against vehicles and the vc sucks against infantry so you'll have flexibility but every time you shoot it, one of your guns will be pointless. Rating 5/10

[hr]

TYRANT GUARD
My analysis
BIOMORPHS
Flesh Hooks - YES - Very useful, low point cost.
Implant Attack - NO - Do not take this UNLESS you are certain that you can get these guys into CC with Multi-wound models. Most players will steer their characters away from a Tyrant Guard brood so it tends to be a waste of points.

WEAPON SYMBIOTES
Lash Whip
- MAYBE - Situational, works very well against things with a lot of attacks but is pointless against normal units which you are likely to be fighting most of the time. Also ST are just a better upgrade.
Scything Talons - YES - Best choise for CC gives better chance at RENDING.

Recommended Configurations To Use
I recommend a full squad of 3. I find that anything below a full brood is just not very effective and gets taken out with ease. leave 'em standard with ST and maybe upgrade them with fleshhooks if you have extra points after building your whole army.


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Old 21 Sep 2008, 23:29   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

I don't suppose you'd fancy going into more details on the biomorphs, particularly WHY you think they are good or bad? The information given seems quite light and I know I disagree with several of your opinions and would be interested to find out how and why you came to those conclusions.

For example, I feel that Bio-Plasma is a great choice against a mechanised army, as it will always hit on a certain score regardless of how fast a vehicle travels.
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Old 21 Sep 2008, 23:46   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Thespian
I don't suppose you'd fancy going into more details on the biomorphs, particularly WHY you think they are good or bad? The information given seems quite light and I know I disagree with several of your opinions and would be interested to find out how and why you came to those conclusions.

For example, I feel that Bio-Plasma is a great choice against a mechanised army, as it will always hit on a certain score regardless of how fast a vehicle travels.
I edited the bio-plasma entry to be more detailed. And just for the sake of not making everything too long to read here's more about why bio-plasma just isn't a good idea for a Tyrant.

You are better off relying on your basic attacks against tanks you'll have better chances of doing damage. Skimmers no longer benefit from the always hit on 6 rule, vehicles must move flat out (means they can't shoot) to gain the ability of only being hit on a 6. If a vehicle is doing this to avoid your assault then be happy, since most of the time you just want to avoid being shot anyway. Otherwise you'll hit them automatically or on a 4+ which is the same as bio-plasma.

Thus pretty much means that bio-plasma is a VERY VERY VERY selective biomorph for a tyrant to use, since it's only ever useful against light tanks (S6 or 7 + D6 won't reliably damage AV12+) and on top of that it only comes in useful in the VERY VERY rare occurence that a player chooses not to shoot to gain faster movement.

lets look at this more in detail...

ANY vehicle that your bio-plasma will be useful against will be a light vehicle moving flat out. Mmmm...light vehicle...moving flat out. Why would you want to hunt those with a tyrant in the first place?? light vehicles have AV 10 so you can pretty much assault it with so many other stuff in your army that have a rain of attacks and can get rid of it that it makes it unwise to even bother using your tyrant on such a target. And heck even fleshborers can take 'em down from shooting.

Truth is almost every time vehicles will only opt to move at combat speed to be able to fire it's rare for people to choose to move flat out because it prevents their shooting. So your normal attacks will hit on 4+ the great majority of the time and you'll get 2d6 penetration to boot. Acid Maw is a much better choice when you are facing down characters are other multi-wound models that you want to get rid of without taking too much return damage in CC.
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Old 21 Sep 2008, 23:52   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
I edited the bio-plasma entry to be more detailed. And just for the sake of not making everything too long to read here's more about why bio-plasma just isn't a good idea for a Tyrant.

*snip*compelling argument*snip*
That's fair enough, but its not just Bio-plasma I disagreed with. Is there any chance of going into more detail on everything? I'm sure your article would be much more helpful, especially newer players, if you explained your reasoning for everything rather than just a plain "yes, use it" or a "no, don't take it".
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 00:12   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Thespian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
I edited the bio-plasma entry to be more detailed. And just for the sake of not making everything too long to read here's more about why bio-plasma just isn't a good idea for a Tyrant.

*snip*compelling argument*snip*
That's fair enough, but its not just Bio-plasma I disagreed with. Is there any chance of going into more detail on everything? I'm sure your article would be much more helpful, especially newer players, if you explained your reasoning for everything rather than just a plain "yes, use it" or a "no, don't take it".
nah can't go into more detail on everything i'm long-winded i'd write way too much which would make it harder to read. I'm always however open to give reasonings for specific opinions if you ask like in the case of bio-plasma.

i'm not simply saying 'yes, no' to taking it i give a very small summary of why it's a yes or a no. so its not like there's no explanation. it's just not a detailed explanation. point out what you disagree with and i'd love to hear your side of things too as to why you disagree with anything i posted.

I tend to play test things over n over before I form an opinion on it so i take into account statistics, cost effectiveness and actual field experience with it before I say 'ok this sucks' or 'wow this thing's great'
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 00:48   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
nah can't go into more detail on everything i'm long-winded i'd write way too much which would make it harder to read. I'm always however open to give reasonings for specific opinions if you ask like in the case of bio-plasma.

i'm not simply saying 'yes, no' to taking it i give a very small summary of why it's a yes or a no. so its not like there's no explanation. it's just not a detailed explanation. point out what you disagree with and i'd love to hear your side of things too as to why you disagree with anything i posted.

I tend to play test things over n over before I form an opinion on it so i take into account statistics, cost effectiveness and actual field experience with it before I say 'ok this sucks' or 'wow this thing's great'
If it's good enough for you, then that's fine for you. I'm just trying to point out that helpful articles often tend to include explanations as to why certain things have been stated; being long-winded isn't a bad thing. I'm just trying to help you make the best article you can.

I personally don't play Tyranids, nor do I even own a Codex. I've played against them enough to know a smattering of knowledge and formed my opinions of them. Therefore, I have neither the ability nor the inclination to go through your entire list and say, "I don't agree with this particular thing; can you elucidate?"

One way or the other, I wish you the best of luck with this series of articles
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MT.[/td][td] [[/td][/tr][/table][hr]What's an abelian group with an associative, distributive secondary operator and the power to corrupt mortals?
[spoiler=Answer]The One Ring![/spoiler]
[hr]
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 01:27   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

Well first of warp field is good for a winged tyrant and not good in general.

Warp field cost 10 pts more than extended carapace. I rather have extended cause it does the same thing only exception is that I don't get an invul save.

Honestly I would say Synapse is the best power over all. It keeps half your army getting instant killed and keeps them fearless.

I disagree again with not taking catalyst. The effect of catalyst extends the ability to 24". Now bonesword is better if you have other models 6" away. Bonesword would be good on a winged tyrand or tyrant with tyrant guard. Other than that catalyst would be better if the tyrant is a gun tyant sitting back shooting.

Everything on psychic powers I kinda agree. Shadow is not bad for one model to have. But overall it's only good against armies that uses hvy psychics. Eldar would roll 2d6 with ne perils. It helps but not much.

Weapons for the Tyrant I agree on. I use a venom cannon/ twin-deathspitter tyrant before. He's very good light anti tank and medium. Venom only glances while the deathspitter pin. I havn't use this config in 5th due to the shots not being as acurate. But a str 7 ap 5 blast at 24 is not bad. But your warriors can have a str6 one so this upgrade see more warrior use.

Also rending is kinda pointless but everytime you roll a six you get it. With acid maw you increase the chance to rend. This is good for ar 14 vehicles max damage with rending is 24. Without it your max is 18. Rending is a good landraider killer. Other than that I say why unless gw comes out with a toughness 10 or higher creature.

Overall Two scything or scything and bonesword is the best cc pic.

A side note on catalyst. Since models go in int order I don't see much use for this. If your models int 5 or higher take fleshhooks. If lower than take Catalyst if you try to swarm. Remember orcs is a really bad army to go against.

Overlooked some stuff. Implant attack is one of the powers I used to use all the time. On a tyrant I feel it's a waste. On a broodlord it's pushing it cause you do tend to try to kill the hq unit on the other side. But on average how many multi- wound models are out there. Also with the nurf on force weapons I don't see why bother with it. It helps on that rare occasion when you fight nobs, meganobs, ogryn, nurgle swarms, and that's about it. Any other multi wound model you will simply beat in combat anyway. If you really need implant attack to fight multi- wound characters than why are you in cc with them anyway.

Also toxic miasma is another why. If you look on the chart it only effect these groups if on a tyrant.

ws 3- are you telling me you need toxic miasma to fight a ws 3 units. If that unit is ws 3 so what it hits on a 4 instead of a 5 it would need sixes to hurt you or even a 4 if it's a powerfist. Honestly how often do you go against this. It's the same as implant attack that can be good in some minor cases but overall most of time it does nothing. Hell implant attack would be more helpful than this uprade on a tyant.

ws 6- Gee that would still hit on a 4. But lookie you hit them on a 3. I tell you there is less ws 6 models out there than the ws 3. But than again it's helps slightly aginst other genestealers .

ws 7- ok he hits you on 4s now. What is ws 7 in this game the eldar phoenix lords, Space Marine Daemon Prince, and the daemon prince for the daemons and that's it. More than likely hardly anyone use a phoenix lord and the prince if done right would smash you.

The xtra int on the broodlord to me is actually worth it if you rationalise getting the miasma on the tyrant. This is some other int 7 units in the game.

Harlequins on a charge
The Archon
Wych Dracite
Phoenix lords

That's to name a few. I say if you're planning for the future than take it.

But toxic miasma does help out the carnifex. It brings you up to ws 5

Ws 4- is most of what you will go up against. Instead of hitting on 4s you will hit them on a 3.

Ws 2- Tau hit you on a 5 instead of a 4. Not like they can hurt you anyway but if they get a 6 lol.

ws 5- basically the emperor finist mostly fit in this cat. Instead of hitting you on a 3 now they hit you on a 4.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 01:50   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Masked Thespian
Quote:
Originally Posted by Akaiyou
nah can't go into more detail on everything i'm long-winded i'd write way too much which would make it harder to read. I'm always however open to give reasonings for specific opinions if you ask like in the case of bio-plasma.

i'm not simply saying 'yes, no' to taking it i give a very small summary of why it's a yes or a no. so its not like there's no explanation. it's just not a detailed explanation. point out what you disagree with and i'd love to hear your side of things too as to why you disagree with anything i posted.

I tend to play test things over n over before I form an opinion on it so i take into account statistics, cost effectiveness and actual field experience with it before I say 'ok this sucks' or 'wow this thing's great'
If it's good enough for you, then that's fine for you. I'm just trying to point out that helpful articles often tend to include explanations as to why certain things have been stated; being long-winded isn't a bad thing. I'm just trying to help you make the best article you can.

I personally don't play Tyranids, nor do I even own a Codex. I've played against them enough to know a smattering of knowledge and formed my opinions of them. Therefore, I have neither the ability nor the inclination to go through your entire list and say, "I don't agree with this particular thing; can you elucidate?"

One way or the other, I wish you the best of luck with this series of articles
kk i'll try my best to add a bit more details while not writting too much. i'll make it more informative than just one sentence whenever possible.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 02:08   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

I edit the top since the last post.

bio-plasma is now really good for warriors. Bio-Plasma is not bad for a tyrant that is near a char with preferred enemy. That's 7 attacks on a charge and the extra attack does help destroy vehicles but overall acid maw is still better.
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Old 22 Sep 2008, 02:36   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: [5th edition Guide] How to best equip your tyranids.

Quote:
Originally Posted by chicop76
Well first of warp field is good for a winged tyrant and not good in general.

Warp field cost 10 pts more than extended carapace. I rather have extended cause it does the same thing only exception is that I don't get an invul save.

Honestly I would say Synapse is the best power over all. It keeps half your army getting instant killed and keeps them fearless.

I disagree again with not taking catalyst. The effect of catalyst extends the ability to 24". Now bonesword is better if you have other models 6" away. Bonesword would be good on a winged tyrand or tyrant with tyrant guard. Other than that catalyst would be better if the tyrant is a gun tyant sitting back shooting.

Everything on psychic powers I kinda agree. Shadow is not bad for one model to have. But overall it's only good against armies that uses hvy psychics. Eldar would roll 2d6 with ne perils. It helps but not much.

Weapons for the Tyrant I agree on. I use a venom cannon/ twin-deathspitter tyrant before. He's very good light anti tank and medium. Venom only glances while the deathspitter pin. I havn't use this config in 5th due to the shots not being as acurate. But a str 7 ap 5 blast at 24 is not bad. But your warriors can have a str6 one so this upgrade see more warrior use.

Also rending is kinda pointless but everytime you roll a six you get it. With acid maw you increase the chance to rend. This is good for ar 14 vehicles max damage with rending is 24. Without it your max is 18. Rending is a good landraider killer. Other than that I say why unless gw comes out with a toughness 10 or higher creature.

Overall Two scything or scything and bonesword is the best cc pic.

A side note on catalyst. Since models go in int order I don't see much use for this. If your models int 5 or higher take fleshhooks. If lower than take Catalyst if you try to swarm. Remember orcs is a really bad army to go against.

Overlooked some stuff. Implant attack is one of the powers I used to use all the time. On a tyrant I feel it's a waste. On a broodlord it's pushing it cause you do tend to try to kill the hq unit on the other side. But on average how many multi- wound models are out there. Also with the nurf on force weapons I don't see why bother with it. It helps on that rare occasion when you fight nobs, meganobs, ogryn, nurgle swarms, and that's about it. Any other multi wound model you will simply beat in combat anyway. If you really need implant attack to fight multi- wound characters than why are you in cc with them anyway.

Also toxic miasma is another why. If you look on the chart it only effect these groups if on a tyrant.

ws 3- are you telling me you need toxic miasma to fight a ws 3 units. If that unit is ws 3 so what it hits on a 4 instead of a 5 it would need sixes to hurt you or even a 4 if it's a powerfist. Honestly how often do you go against this. It's the same as implant attack that can be good in some minor cases but overall most of time it does nothing. Hell implant attack would be more helpful than this uprade on a tyant.

ws 6- Gee that would still hit on a 4. But lookie you hit them on a 3. I tell you there is less ws 6 models out there than the ws 3. But than again it's helps slightly aginst other genestealers .

ws 7- ok he hits you on 4s now. What is ws 7 in this game the eldar phoenix lords, Space Marine Daemon Prince, and the daemon prince for the daemons and that's it. More than likely hardly anyone use a phoenix lord and the prince if done right would smash you.

The xtra int on the broodlord to me is actually worth it if you rationalise getting the miasma on the tyrant. This is some other int 7 units in the game.

Harlequins on a charge
The Archon
Wych Dracite
Phoenix lords

That's to name a few. I say if you're planning for the future than take it.

But toxic miasma does help out the carnifex. It brings you up to ws 5

Ws 4- is most of what you will go up against. Instead of hitting on 4s you will hit them on a 3.

Ws 2- Tau hit you on a 5 instead of a 4. Not like they can hurt you anyway but if they get a 6 lol.

ws 5- basically the emperor finist mostly fit in this cat. Instead of hitting you on a 3 now they hit you on a 4.
Winged Tyrants > Walk Tyrants.

and for this simple reason Warp Field > EC because you can't take EC on a Winged Tyrant. Otherwise warp field would be pretty useless. Winged tyrants saving on 3+ are risky business which makes warp field damn near essential for them.

Catalyst is only useful when enemies have natural higher initiative than your own units. which against nids doesnt happen very often at all. And even tho catalyst does have it's use, i consider it a 'zoanthrope' power not a the type of power a tyrant should waste his 1 psychic power on. When psychic scream, warp field and warp blast are so much better.

rending is pointless. Oh and bro the new rending rules make rending d3. Meaning the 'max' damage is not 24 it's 21. And even then it's overkill and unreliable for any monstrous creatures so super useless unless you just need it to save points badly.

Implant attack is awesome. You must've been lucky because from what i've seen every army has multi-wound models. Wether they be elites, hqs, heavy supports or characters they are there in every single army in the game. And implant attack makes killing them very feasible. Specially when character hunting.

CC tyrants are not good 'infantry' or 'horde' killers if you play them like that you are using them wrong because they simply don't have enough attacks to go around so you can get stuck in combat rather easily longer than expected. But against small strong units they can be quite deadly. This is why i take toxic miasma because I always send my CC tyrants towards the hardest targets and I like to escape unscathed. Adrenal Glands and Miasma are defense upgrades really so thats why i use them together. The adrenal glands (I) for the broodlord is a bit unnecessary since it's not useful against most opponents only very few enemies can go at I7 and they tend to come from eldar and dark eldar armies. Which hardly warrants their use unless you play against these armies very very often and they have those units.
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