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What's wrong with Lictors?
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 07:01   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default What's wrong with Lictors?

Hello.

I regularly hear that Lictors are not worth their points and though I do not have any experience of using them yet I can theorize that they may be useful in some situations.

For example: that Farseer keeping that wraithlord under control? Yep, she's only got one attack, a mediocre invulnarable save and awful toughness, and her weapon skill isn't much to look at either compared with the Lictor's.

Devastators, Biovores, Basilisks (pretty much every peice of artillery bar the Defiler and Monolith) are potential victims of the Lictor.

So where do they go wrong?

Thanks,

-Lord of the Pit
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 07:17   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Lord of the Pit
Hello.

I regularly hear that Lictors are not worth their points and though I do not have any experience of using them yet I can theorize that they may be useful in some situations.

For example: that Farseer keeping that wraithlord under control? Yep, she's only got one attack, a mediocre invulnarable save and awful toughness, and her weapon skill isn't much to look at either compared with the Lictor's.

Devastators, Biovores, Basilisks (pretty much every peice of artillery bar the Defiler and Monolith) are potential victims of the Lictor.

So where do they go wrong?

Thanks,

-Lord of the Pit
I'll cover a few things about your post that I can think of real fast.

1. Lictors are a unit that ends up attacking 1 thing or 2 the whole game. Kill that whirlwind? wewt you earned 75-90 pts and then the lictor will likely die, plus it's just 1 model that you have to support or it may die as well. They're not Horrible they just take some playstyle tailoring to use. I've seen em go bad and seen em go good. It's all a matter of how you use it.

2. Sorta off topic but, Farseer's aren't a pushover. 2 attacks unless they have a singing spear, always wound on a 2+ WS is good enough, and if he Fortuned himself then he'll have a great chance to survive, I've had 1 farseer stand agianst 10 terminators for 3 turns, slowly whittling them down and rerolling saves left and right. just FYI =P don't underestimate the Eldar, they have all kinds of crazy stuff that will frustrate you.

But to finish the point. Lictors are another one of the 40K units that you take more because you've tailored them into your grand scheme or because you just love the model. But you have to ask yourself: will they pay for themselves or can you buy better units?

-Knight
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 07:48   #3 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

Lictors are very worth their points. You not only have to look at combat effectiveness, but Lictor's role as a support to the Swarm. One, they allow you to reroll a reserve roll per turn. This is a big bonus. I certain game types this small bonus can give quite an advantage on the battlefield.

Another, with the change to Feeder Tendrils, is have your Lictor appear and combine a charge with a mass of Gaunts or Genestealers or Carnifexes or something. If a unit of 32 Hormagaunts assaults with a Lictor you get 96 attacks with rerolls to hit. Insane numbers.

I'll just touch gently on the subject because this is 77's favorite, and I'd hate to steal his thunder. :P
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 09:53   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

Lictors...are evil.
My entire tau gun line mixed with kroot and IG were systematiclly torn apart by a Lictor ><
i couldnt do anything...
so in my opinion...yes they are evil.
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 14:57   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

Why I like lictors

A. Reliable deep strike: They pop into terrain and will only die if they find an enemy unit there

B. Being able to assault out of deep strike: the main reason why I ususally never deep strike any of my units(because I'm completely addicted to melee with tyranids) The only thing keeping that lictor alive is the fact that the turn you got him in play was the same turn he assaulted that vulnerable enemy fire support mechanism, this is what keeps tau gunlines from making him explode with focused fire before he can do anything, this is what makes a lictors points worth it.

C. Harassment and psychological warfare: your enemy is backing up his troops with fire support, but suddenly his fire support basically dissapears because a lictor showed up and ate it. This does tolls on the players outlook on the battle.

Use lictors as scalpels, for surgical strikes against designated targets. Spend the 80 points well and know that they might not come out alive.
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 15:01   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

I love my Lictors, here's why:

Scuttling Genestealers! They generally go into Outflank, but due to low staying power sometimes it's better for them to come on later than earlier. I use my two lictor re-rolls to try and keep them off the board in the early turns, or to ensure they come on when I need them to. Of course, it's still possible they'll turn up on the wrong side, but *touches wood* that hasn't happened yet.

When they do turn up, the support role is excellent. Sure, they'll probably die in CC with anything worth half a pillar of salt, but if you're up against IG or TAU, who would rather shoot at you, that 2+ cover save can come in really handy (barring markerlights, of course)
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 15:14   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

Everyone else has covered pretty much the general reasons why Lictors are absolutely amazing, and 77 will definitely have a few choice words to say on the matter

However, one reason I like Lictors is the new cover rules. Lictors add 2 to their cover save at all times... with the abundance of cover now available, a hefty 2+ cover save isn't anything to laugh at. If there isn't any decent artillery or weak isolated units for my Lictor to attack, I'll deploy him behind my swarm. Once the gaunts hit combat, anything trying to shoot at him from behind the combat will have to contend with a 2+ cover save :P Keeps him alive much longer against shooting attacks.

Hit and run is another useful thing to remember. If you engaged your Lictor in the wrong combat, or have succeed in your goal (maybe killing that Eldar Warlock or Farseer, or that chaos Sorcerer), leave the combat and jump into a piece of cover. Now, if your enemy tries to shoot back, you still get your ludicrous save.
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Old 29 Aug 2008, 15:19   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

I have never use my lictors in a game yet, but there are several times I wish I did. Basically it isn;t that the Lictor is bad, it is just that I have alreay spent the points somewhere else. Although having him lurcking behind a unit of gaunts and granting the whole feeder tendrils ability sounds pretty fun. I will make room in the future.

@ sionnach: ludicrous save indeed!
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Old 01 Sep 2008, 20:55   #9 (permalink)
77
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

I'm out for the long weekend and I see this.....

I have heard this beef about Lictors not being worth their points from a couple different places lately. Let's break down what you are getting for your 80 points.

Basically, your Lictor is a really tooled up Warrior - if you stripped it down to its basic parts, you have the same T, same number of attacks, same number of wounds, same Leadership, same basic save...... you get the idea. So a Lictor could be viewed as a Warrior with the following biomorphs and weapon symbiotes:
  • Adrenal Glands (WS) x2
  • Adrenal Glands (I) x2
  • Toxin Sacs x2
  • Feeder Tendrils
  • Scything Talons
  • Rending Claws
  • Flesh Hooks

I know that you could not do it legally in the game, but if you were to give a Warrior those choices (also assuming the cost of Feeder Tendrils is the same a Broodlord), you are looking at a creature that costs 45 points. So what are you getting for the remaining 35?
  • Pathfinder level Stealth USR
  • Hit and Run
  • Re-roll for a failed reserve roll
  • Sweet and reliable deep strike ability
  • Assault on the turn that you come in
  • Immune to Instinctive Behavior test (thanks to the new FAQ)
  • Fearless

You are basically paying 5 points per ability on the second list.

This is why they are a 0-1 choice. I don't think that any other unit in 40k packs this much into 80 points.

Let's not forget the benefits that you get with those 80 points that are not in the codex entry per se:

a) Psychological intimidation - most people I play roll their eyes and slap their heads whenever I have told them that I there is a Lictor waiting to come in; even more so when 2 of them do. Lictors score high on intimidation because they have the very real potential to pop a crucial tank, insta-kill a T3 target, or to confound needed fire support units. It is really entertaining to see your opponent always stay more than 6" away from cover that they would really like to take advantage of.

b) Character - of all the beasties at our disposal, the Lictor carries the most character because it operates individually. Yes it lends a hand to your other units with Feeder Tendrils, but it is delivered on its own with the intent to hunt outlying or isolated targets. The Lictor feels the most like a predator stalking units on the table. Additionally, many Tyranid players chose this race from the influence of the Alien movies and seeing the Xenomorph pick off human crew members one by one. The Lictor captures that fear that you have wanted to control. Another way to tap into this element is by playing Kill Team. White Dwarf legalized a pair of Lictors as a Kill Team and I think that it is a great way to play that kind of 40k.

c) Fluff - I think that the fluff for the Lictor is some of the most fun to read. Many have undertaken extended writings on them. Here are some recommendations that I have found on Warpshadow. Very entertaining.

http://forum.warpshadow.com/viewtopic.php?t=2108

http://forum.warpshadow.com/viewtopic.php?t=6953

http://forum.warpshadow.com/viewtopic.php?t=3394

[hr]

So you may wonder about 5th ed. Many of the same benefits and tactics from 4th ed. still come into play. There are some new tricks to consider though.
  • Take advantage of the Feeder Tendrils to help your other broods.
  • With the new vehicle assault rules, Lictors can come from any angle now and hit that vulnerable rear armour.
  • Hit and Run allow Lictors to do a pseudo-consolidation from one assault to another.
  • Flesh Hooks are that much better now, allowing players to take advantage of the great initiative that the Lictors have.
  • Once the Lictor is on the table, it can run, allowing it to be that much more mobile and versitile.

Many new players lose patience with Lictors, which is why they are regarded as "not being worth their points." I feel that this is rubbish and these players are handicapping their army in denying such a powerful and useful unit. If you persevere in learning to use Lictors, you will open up a whole new arena of tactics.

In the hands of an experienced player, Lictors are always worth the points.
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Old 02 Sep 2008, 02:44   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: What's wrong with Lictors?

And the congregation stood up and said: "Amen"! :P

Really interesting analysis 77, breaking down the Lictor by showing it as more of a "super warrior".
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