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rending/strength
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Old 23 May 2007, 17:35   #11 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Well, against an assault army yeah, but he's got to walk the board to do his damage, and on escalation he's going to struggle to do much.
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Old 23 May 2007, 18:46   #12 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Um, yeah. I'd just like to say that rending is the worst thing you can give a MC.

MCs already ignore armor saves, so the only reason to put in on a MC is for the auto-wound hit. I'd rather have extra attacks that wound on a 2+ and ignore armor than the chance for a rending hit personally.

But check out page 55 of the rulebook. In the Monstrous Creature section under the Assault Phase you'll see that a Monstrous Creature gets 2d6 for armor penetration unless it has a special armor penetration rule.

Guess what folks, rending has special armor penetration. If you five a MC rending then the 2d6 it would normally roll against vehicles is replace with the rending vehicle penetration rules. You're actually paying to remove one of the best things we have against vehicles.

Quote:
Originally Posted by El Magnifico
i completely suck at rolling 2+ so i wouldnt mind t he extra chance of wounding without bothering to roll (ie - i get a 6 to hit)
If you can't roll a 2+ how are you going to roll a 6 for rending? Just a thought.
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Old 23 May 2007, 18:53   #13 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77
Actually they can.
Oh, they can! I was assuming they couldn't anymore because it wasn't even given with the sprues.

Quote:
Originally Posted by 77
Something to note is that you can get an Elite Carnifex for 114 points that has Crushing Claws, Rending Claws and Flesh Hooks.

That might be interesting...
While interesting, compared to a Screamer-Killer, it's a worse deal. You have a random number of attacks, which only have a 33% chance of being higher than the Screamer-Killer's number of attacks(4), so a 17% chance of having the same number of attacks and a 50% chance of having less attacks, for the dame cost.

I'll take a Screamer-Killer every time.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoritomo
Um, yeah. I'd just like to say that rending is the worst thing you can give a MC.
It really only has it's uses on a Hive Tyrant, and then it's only for a very specialized role: Seeking and destroying T7 and above targets. With only 3 of those in the game, you're not going to run into that chance very often.

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoritomo
If you can't roll a 2+ how are you going to roll a 6 for rending? Just a thought.
I was curious about the same thing...
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Old 23 May 2007, 19:10   #14 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrant Chrysaor
It really only has it's uses on a Hive Tyrant, and then it's only for a very specialized role: Seeking and destroying T7 and above targets. With only 3 of those in the game, you're not going to run into that chance very often.
Yeah, but against anything with a Toughness of 6 or better is usually better delt with by using stealers. I don't really look foward to my tyrant getting slaped around by a wraithlord, carnifex, or talos.
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Old 23 May 2007, 19:53   #15 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoritomo
Yeah, but against anything with a Toughness of 6 or better is usually better delt with by using stealers. I don't really look foward to my tyrant getting slaped around by a wraithlord, carnifex, or talos.
But, you must realize, the Tyrant is superior to a bunch of Genestealers for this. He is faster, you can give him Implant Attack and Acid Maw, and he strikes first against all of these targets. You need to only land 2 wounds onto a Warithlord to kill it, or 3 on a Carnifex with this kind of build. That's the entire idea behind it, kill it before it has time to hit back. Against Toughness 6 targets, you are pretty much assured it is dead, with 6 attacks, 4 will hit, 3 will wound after rerolls, 6 with Implant Attack. That's enough wounds there to bring down anything without an invulnerable save.
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Old 23 May 2007, 20:30   #16 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrant Chrysaor
Quote:
Originally Posted by yoritomo
Yeah, but against anything with a Toughness of 6 or better is usually better delt with by using stealers. I don't really look foward to my tyrant getting slaped around by a wraithlord, carnifex, or talos.
But, you must realize, the Tyrant is superior to a bunch of Genestealers for this. He is faster, you can give him Implant Attack and Acid Maw, and he strikes first against all of these targets. You need to only land 2 wounds onto a Warithlord to kill it, or 3 on a Carnifex with this kind of build. That's the entire idea behind it, kill it before it has time to hit back. Against Toughness 6 targets, you are pretty much assured it is dead, with 6 attacks, 4 will hit, 3 will wound after rerolls, 6 with Implant Attack. That's enough wounds there to bring down anything without an invulnerable save.
Unless you're rolling to hit with a pack of Onesie's friends...
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Old 24 May 2007, 04:54   #17 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tyrant Chrysaor
But, you must realize, the Tyrant is superior to a bunch of Genestealers for this. He is faster, you can give him Implant Attack and Acid Maw, and he strikes first against all of these targets. You need to only land 2 wounds onto a Warithlord to kill it, or 3 on a Carnifex with this kind of build. That's the entire idea behind it, kill it before it has time to hit back. Against Toughness 6 targets, you are pretty much assured it is dead, with 6 attacks, 4 will hit, 3 will wound after rerolls, 6 with Implant Attack. That's enough wounds there to bring down anything without an invulnerable save.
True, the tyranit is better than a stealer. I find that my stealers' friend, the brick O'dice, make up for these shortcommings.

Let's look at a practical example; Tyrant Vs. Wraithlord.

If we let the tyrant get the charge then he will have 5 attacks. There's a good chance one of them will rend. He should also get 2-3 regular hits, we'll say 3 to make the math work better. Now you have a 1 in 6 chance of wounding, unless you bought acid maw, in which case it becomes around a 1 in 3 chance. So that should be a second wound if you have acid maw. And if you bought implant attack you just killed the wraithlord.

At this point I'd like to point out that you have to roll above avrage to kill the wraithlord on the charge. Not shockingly above avrage, just a little bit. Enough to get that rending hit, and to get the 3 hits instead of 2, and to wound with the help of the acid maw. In short you have to count on the dice going your way, if not in your favor.

With the same 200+ points you're spending on that tyrant you could get 12 stealers. On the charge those 12 stealers have 36 attacks, you should get enough rending hits to kill a wraithlord twice. And with fleet they are not much slower that a tyrant.

Besides, I think the winged tyrant is much better against infantry and heavy support squads. He's going to do much more dammage there than he is popping a wraithlord or fex.
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Old 24 May 2007, 05:10   #18 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: rending/strength

Quote:
Originally Posted by yoritomo
True, the tyranit is better than a stealer. I find that my stealers' friend, the brick O'dice, make up for these shortcommings.

Let's look at a practical example; Tyrant Vs. Wraithlord.

If we let the tyrant get the charge then he will have 5 attacks. There's a good chance one of them will rend. He should also get 2-3 regular hits, we'll say 3 to make the math work better. Now you have a 1 in 6 chance of wounding, unless you bought acid maw, in which case it becomes around a 1 in 3 chance. So that should be a second wound if you have acid maw. And if you bought implant attack you just killed the wraithlord.

At this point I'd like to point out that you have to roll above avrage to kill the wraithlord on the charge. Not shockingly above avrage, just a little bit. Enough to get that rending hit, and to get the 3 hits instead of 2, and to wound with the help of the acid maw. In short you have to count on the dice going your way, if not in your favor.

With the same 200+ points you're spending on that tyrant you could get 12 stealers. On the charge those 12 stealers have 36 attacks, you should get enough rending hits to kill a wraithlord twice. And with fleet they are not much slower that a tyrant.

Besides, I think the winged tyrant is much better against infantry and heavy support squads. He's going to do much more dammage there than he is popping a wraithlord or fex.
While I agree, I was just trying to make a good case to use Rending Claws on a Tyrant.


However, against a Godzilla army, a Wing Tyrant will utterly devastate. He has the maneuverability and speed to catch the Carnifexes easily, and enough attacks to almost guarantee a dead Carnifex a turn. They will get no chance to strike back, and will only do so on 5's if they do get the chance, with 2 attacks.
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