[Faust]

Hi completely new to nids, could someone point out where i am going wrong.

I am trying to make up about 1000pts for all comers modelled on an urban theme so that i don't waste my money,

Basically i am going off the look of models and how killy they look in HtH so i am sorry if this is beardy or crap, its not intended to be:

no ranged if possible (psychic ok)
Loads of fast hormagaunts (love the models)
Lictors (love the models)
Genestealers
Broodlord for HQ?
Killy warrior brood (not shooty)
Not sure what to go for for FA?
Also not sure what to go for for HS... rending carnifex? not a biovore though.

is this a viable sort of army to play?

From the above i was thinking:

Broodlord – extended carapace 323
9 Stealers, extended carapace, toxin sacks

Lictor 80
Lictor 80

Troops

16 Hormagaunts
toxin sacks, extended carapace 208

16 Hormagaunts
toxin sacks, extended carapace 208

Carnifex 101
Scything talons

1000 exactly


like i said i have no idea what i am doing with tyranids, the only thing i was worried about was heavy vehicles. I was going to give the carnifex extended carapace but when i totted it up i was 1025 so that was the easiest way of dropping it back down

any suggestions?

[Tony]

I suggest that you should make your army very survivable, because it has to make it to combat alive. Add in extended carapaces for bigger tyranids, etc. Also, make hormagaunts as cheap as possible so you can swamp your enemy.

[whitestar333]

Okay so first of all, toxin sacs on genestealers is basically unnecessary because the damage they're likely to cause is primarily from rending which auto-wounds regardless of toughness, and ignores armor saves. The only way I could see S5 being useful is up against a wraithlord or anything toughness 8, in which case you will rend it to death more than likely before your S5 attacks matter. Drop those. Additionally you might not want to have so many genestealers in the broodlord retinue because then it makes it much more difficult to infiltrate them out of LOS. Since genestealer models have flailing arms, they take up a lot of space and get hooked up on each other like a barrell of monkeys. Usually 5 or 6 genestealers is better because you can squeeze them into better infiltrating positions. Use the points to get more hormagants.

I won't get into the hormagant with toxin sacs or adrenal glands debate, but I do say you need to drop extended carapace. There is VERY little difference between a 5+ save and a 6+ save, and not enough to make a reasonable difference. There's so much AP5 or better out there that its just a waste of points - you're better off with more models.
The lictors are fun but I'd recommend trying one out first before deciding to take two... I think you'd benefit more from taking one lictor and more homagants.

I like the simplicity of the carnifex, and in 1000 points if you play on a small board he might make it into CC, and it's good that he's also pretty inexpensive. Otherwise I'd say make the changes above and throw in more hormagants! Those buggers are fast and in 1000 points you'll be able to throw out enough of them to outnumber your opponent easily. My only problem with this list is synapse... you might need to throw in some leaping or flying warriors just to provide extra synapse coverage for your gaunts as they can quickly get outside of range of your broodlord.

[Faust]

thanks, that's very helpful, i'll edit this post with a revised list in a bit.

EDIT:

Broodlord – 190 <- removed the broodlord's carapace to free up a few points, it doesn't
5 Stealers, extended carapace, its less effective with majority armour anyway
sything tallons

Elites

Lictor 80 <- dropped a lictor

4 Warriors 144 <- Wasnt sure to give sythes or rending but i figured in 1000pts more
sythes higher str attacks were better than fewer rending ones at str 4
extended carapace Also gave them extended carapace because Ap4 is much rarer than
Leaping Ap5.
toxin sacks

Troops

19 Hormagaunts 228 <- made 2 groups of 19 because that was what i could afford
toxin sacks,

19 Hormagaunts 228
toxin sacks,

Carnifex 125 <- thought T7 might be nice to protect him from small arms fire
Scything talons also figured that any las cannons are going to negate a save
Bonded exoskeleton anyway so wondered what the point of a 2+ was - spose this
adrenal glands (WS) means that all small arms will hit my poor hormagaunts
adrenal glands are to use up 4 pts.
995

[whitestar333]

Well carnifexes are notoriously slow at getting into Close Combat but at smaller point games you might have a chance. For a reliable CC unit I usually take a flying hive tyrant - plus you have a much better initiative. You might want to consider a hive tyrant instead of a carnifex - plus he's better for synapse control.

In my experiences more rending attacks are better than higher strength because they A) ignore armor saves and B) don't have to roll to wound. Here's an example:

4 Warriors with Scything Talons + Rending Claws on the charge:
16 attacks -> 8 hits (2.67 rending) -> 2.67 wounds -> 3.56 dead MEQs
16 attacks -> 8 hits (2.67 rending) -> 3.55 wounds -> 6.22 dead GEQs

4 Warriors with 2x Scything Talons + Toxin Sacs on the charge:
20 attacks -> 10 hits -> 6.67 wounds -> 2.22 dead MEQs
20 attacks -> 13.33 hits -> 11.11 wounds -> 7.41 dead GEQs

Now the scything talons are worth it against GEQs but that's a decision you have to make based on who you play. Typically there are more marine players than guard players, but otherwise the warriors look good!

The other issue is that the genestealers with the broodlord are likely to get shot up pretty easily (albeit they do have a 4+ save) with the broodlord so you might want to consider taking off the scything talons, as the extra attack might not be worth the points. Genestealers are a high priority target in most armies, and a lot of firepower will be thrown their way. Think of them as a "broodlord delivery system", as the broodlord is one of the deadliest independent characters in the game in my opinion. Just another area you can cut points if need be.

[Faust]

cheers, glad i asked before i bought... will put those ideas into action!

Broodlord – 170
5 Stealers extended carapace,

Lictor 80

5 Warriors 185
rending claws
extended carapace
Leaping

20 Hormagaunts 240
toxin sacks,

20 Hormagaunts 240
toxin sacks,

2 Raveners with rending 80

995 -

decided carnifex would take too long to get into combat

one question, if giving rending claws makes all attacks rending, what's the point in putting 2 sets on a warrior over rending claws and a set of scything talons which cost less...?

[mattroid]

Originally Posted by Faust

one question, if giving rending claws makes all attacks rending, what's the point in putting 2 sets on a warrior over rending claws and a set of scything talons which cost less...?

If you give warriors rending claws that only takes up 1 of the two required weapon biomorphs. So if you're equipping them for close combat, you want to give them 1 set of rending claws, and 1 set of scything talons. Making all those attacks rending. Giving two sets of rending claws is redundant as the second set doesn't do anything.

Whitestar kinda demonstrated it in the post previous to yours with his statistical examples. Notice they say Scything Talons + Rending Claws in his first example and Scything Talons x2 for his second example.

Hope this cleared that up for you.

-Mattroid