[kingcomrade]

I've been experimenting with other armies lately, and I decided to try my hand at the Zerg. It's partly also because a friend recently bought the Codex and I want to learn the ins and outs of the Tyranids. Once I know what makes a competitive list, I will understand the Tyranids' strengths and weaknesses :P

1497

Broodlord
+Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
83
11 Genestealers (Retinue)
+Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks, Scything Talons
264
These guys basically do what they are supposed to do in the fluff. They pop out and distract my enemies while my main force moves up. My specific question is whether I should drop extended carapace and get scuttlers instead. I'm not sure if getting a first turn assault would be better than taking saves against bolters.

3 Warriors
Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
135

3 Warriors
Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
135
These are my synapse creatures. Since I'm not very fond of expensive BS3 shooters I decided to make them into CC guys. They will fall behind my gaunts but their 12" charge should let them catch up.

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169
26 attacks, 39 on the charge. That's pretty good. S3, maybe, but when you've got that many attacks...

20 Spinegaunts
100
As a Chaos player, being able to get 20 models for 100 points intrigues me. For half the cost of one of my Chaos squads I can get half the number of models in my entire Black Legion. I had to include at least one squad of these guys. Yeah, sure, they'd lose combat against a marine squad of the same cost, but who cares, that's not really what they are for. Should I be taking Adrenal Glands, here?

20 Termagants
180

20 Termagants
180
What can I say, they're Eldar Guardian/Defenders who can respawn.

3 Zoanthropes
Warp Blast
165
My anti-tank.

[Gada Mazaha]

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

I've been experimenting with other armies lately, and I decided to try my hand at the Zerg. It's partly also because a friend recently bought the Codex and I want to learn the ins and outs of the Tyranids. Once I know what makes a competitive list, I will understand the Tyranids' strengths and weaknesses :P

Hello, and welcome to the Tyranid boards. From first glance, I can already tell your list is fairly flawed if you want to even think about using it competitively. I'll explain in each choice.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

Broodlord
+Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
83
11 Genestealers (Retinue)
+Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks, Scything Talons
264

Bad idea not taking Extended Carapace on the Broodlord. It's not much, and adds a great amount of survivability.

The Genestealer Retinue is much, MUCH, MUCH too big to even hope about Infiltrating it. Drop this to 5-7. It should be effective. This should free up some points in your army.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

These guys basically do what they are supposed to do in the fluff. They pop out and distract my enemies while my main force moves up. My specific question is whether I should drop extended carapace and get scuttlers instead. I'm not sure if getting a first turn assault would be better than taking saves against bolters.

On a note, you can take Scuttlers with the Genestealers, but since the Broodlord doesn't have access to this, the entire brood won't be able to use it. Therefore, it will be a complete waste of points. First turn assaults with this unit is not a tactic to rely on, as it is quite difficult to use against a player who knows better. When it does work, it can have absolutely devastating results, and can win you game by themselves. Food for thought.

I have some Battle Reports of a couple of RTT I attended not too long ago, both used a fairly balanced list, and faired okay. I'll post the links for you to read. There are many other battle reports from other players, I would search for them as well.

My First RTT Report.
My Second RTT Report.

Hopefully, this might give you some insight into playing Nids in a tournament environment.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

3 Warriors
Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
135

3 Warriors
Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
135

These look good. I prefer to use them in Broods of 4. I don't know why, they just work well in groups of 4.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

These are my synapse creatures. Since I'm not very fond of expensive BS3 shooters I decided to make them into CC guys. They will fall behind my gaunts but their 12" charge should let them catch up.

Actually, I find "expensive BS3 shooters" to work much better than you'd expect. CC is nice, but if you're all CC, you're not doing any damage on the way there.

Also, if this is all your Synapse, consider yourself screwed over. You need to invest in more in some form.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169

Good, but I'd drop the Flesh Hooks. They generally won't be of enough use to benefit them.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

26 attacks, 39 on the charge. That's pretty good. S3, maybe, but when you've got that many attacks...

That's the general idea behind them. (Or most Tyranids, for that matter)

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

20 Spinegaunts
100

Easily my favorite flavor of Gaunt. Decent ranged, cheap as dirt.(Don't let lonelytau see that>_&lt

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

As a Chaos player, being able to get 20 models for 100 points intrigues me. For half the cost of one of my Chaos squads I can get half the number of models in my entire Black Legion. I had to include at least one squad of these guys. Yeah, sure, they'd lose combat against a marine squad of the same cost, but who cares, that's not really what they are for. Should I be taking Adrenal Glands, here?

No. Spinegaunts are there for their numbers. Nothing more. Not threatening? These are can be one of the most dangerous units on the board. You laugh now, but many people ignore them, get shot at, and then assaulted. With a good sized squad, that's a buttload of dead enemies.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

20 Termagants
180

20 Termagants
180

I prefer Spinegaunts, but these are more effective against MEQ's.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

What can I say, they're Eldar Guardian/Defenders who can respawn.

Not unless you payed the extra points for Without Number, and if you did, drop it. Now. I demand thee. It's a waste of points. By the time those Gaunts are dead, most(if not all) of your Synapse would be gone as well, so they won't ever move back onto the board. Waste of points that could've gone somewhere else.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

3 Zoanthropes
Warp Blast
165
My anti-tank.

I'd add Synapse to all of them. Maybe drop a squad of Termagants and go for a SniperFex. You really need the anti-tank. You'll see many kinds of armor in tournaments, and there's no way you'll be able to drop it all with only one squad. Even more so if your opponent drops then first, then he's clear to wipe the board with his armor you can't do anything about. Thats no fun.

I hope this helps.

[kingcomrade]

Bad idea not taking Extended Carapace on the Broodlord. It's not much, and adds a great amount of survivability.

Why? Isn't he buried in the squad?

If I'm going to take a Carnifex, I'm thinking I ought to take two. I'm like taking things in pairs. Are Carnifexes any good at CC? I've read a couple places that they aren't, but I'm not sure why. They seem pretty good to me. I mean, Carnifexes can be kitted out to look like much better, if somewhat slower Daemon Princes for about the same price.

Also, for a SniperFex, why take a Venom Cannon and a Fleshborer? They're both kinda expensive, why not, say, a Venom Cannon and a Deathspitter?

I've got 74 spare points with this list, 84 if I swap out the Fleshborer. I'm also thinking about dropping one of the Zoanthropes. That would be a hefty chunk of points.

Broodlord
+Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
83
6 Genestealers (Retinue)
+Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks, Scything Talons
144

3 Warriors
2x Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Rending Claws, Barbed Strangler
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
146

3 Warriors
2x Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Rending Claws, Venom Cannon
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
151

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169

20 Spinegaunts
100

20 Termagants
120

3 Zoanthropes
Synapse
Warp Blast
195

Carnifex
Enhanced Senses, Venom Cannon, Fleshborer, Flesh Hooks
149

[Gada Mazaha]

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

Why? Isn't he buried in the squad?

He is for shooting purposes, but he can be targeted in CC, and a 3+ save is much more helpful than a 4+ save. Trust me, I've had plenty of times where's that saved mine.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

If I'm going to take a Carnifex, I'm thinking I ought to take two. I'm like taking things in pairs. Are Carnifexes any good at CC? I've read a couple places that they aren't, but I'm not sure why. They seem pretty good to me. I mean, Carnifexes can be kitted out to look like much better, if somewhat slower Daemon Princes for about the same price.

Carnifexes can be amazing in CC... If they get there. That's the main problem with them. With Shooty Fexes, you don't need to take two of them to be effective. With CC Fexes, you generally need to take 2 in order to "pinch" the enemy between them, assuring they reach CC.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

Also, for a SniperFex, why take a Venom Cannon and a Fleshborer? They're both kinda expensive, why not, say, a Venom Cannon and a Deathspitter?

Okay, I'm assuming you meant Barbed Strangler instead of a Fleshborer. Why? Because they both have the same range, and they both have decent armor penetration, through their strength. Deathspitters are kinda useless on a Carnifex. You only get one shot that's not too high in strength, the range is okay, the blast won't help you much, and the twin-linked is nice, but the Barbed Strangler can kill many more guys with one shot than the Deathspitter can in several. Also, the Barbed Strangler has the range, meaning you'll be shooting 2 full turns more with the Barbed than with the Deathspitters. And again, the barbed has a much better chance against armor than the Deathspitters.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

Broodlord
+Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
83
6 Genestealers (Retinue)
+Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks, Scything Talons
144

Better, but I'd still invest in EC for the Broodlord.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

3 Warriors
2x Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Rending Claws, Barbed Strangler
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
146

Eh... I've never liked Barbed Stranglers on anything but Carnifexes. And, you need to make this Warrior squad focus on one aspect, CC or shooting, not both.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

3 Warriors
2x Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Rending Claws, Venom Cannon
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
151

Like the above, you need to focus on one aspect, not two. This broods shooting isn't as good as a full blown shooting unit, and this broods CC isn't as good as a full blown CC unit.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169

13 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands, Flesh Hooks
169

Well, if you persist with the Flesh Hooks... I guess.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

20 Spinegaunts
100

20 Termagants
120

Good, you dropped Without Number.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

3 Zoanthropes
Synapse
Warp Blast
195

These should be of more help now.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

Carnifex
Enhanced Senses, Venom Cannon, Fleshborer, Flesh Hooks
149

Again, by Fleshborer I'm assuming you meant Barbed Strangler.

[kingcomrade]

He is for shooting purposes, but he can be targeted in CC, and a 3+ save is much more helpful than a 4+ save. Trust me, I've had plenty of times where's that saved mine.

Do the genestealers not count as a retinue...?

Like the above, you need to focus on one aspect, not two. This broods shooting isn't as good as a full blown shooting unit, and this broods CC isn't as good as a full blown CC unit.

Why is this? Their job is CC, I just gave them a single gun to shoot while they advance. I only sacrifice a single attack to give them that gun, so I come out ahead in attacks.

1503

Broodlord
+Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs, Extended Carapace
93
6 Genestealers (Retinue)
+Extended Carapace, Flesh Hooks, Scything Talons
144

3 Warriors
2x Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Rending Claws, Venom Cannon
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
151

3 Warriors
2x Rending Claws, Scything Talons
Rending Claws, Venom Cannon
Both Adrenal Glands, Extended Carapace, Leaping, Flesh Hooks, Toxin Sacs
151

12 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands
143

12 Hormagaunts
Both Adrenal Glands
143

20 Spinegaunts
100

20 Termagants
120

3 Zoanthropes
Synapse
Warp Blast
195

Carnifex
Enhanced Senses, Venom Cannon, Barbed Strangler, Flesh Hooks
149

Carnifex
Scything Talons, Scything Talons, Bio-plasma
Adrenal Glands (WS), Flesh Hooks
114

[Gada Mazaha]

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

Do the genestealers not count as a retinue...?

They do, but the Broodlord is an Independent Character. he must be in BTB to do damage, and if he is, he may also have allocated attacks against him.

Originally Posted by kingcomrade

Why is this? Their job is CC, I just gave them a single gun to shoot while they advance. I only sacrifice a single attack to give them that gun, so I come out ahead in attacks.

Meh, I guess, if you really want to.