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Back to the Nids - 1500
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Old 29 Jun 2010, 14:20   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Back to the Nids - 1500

Hello,

Tyranids was one of my first 40K armies, then I moved across to orks..and now back again! So, I'm very rusty and what with a new codex/models, hard to work out what's best list wise - but here is my first army list.

HQ 1
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Hive Commander 255

ELITES
Zoanthrope Brood x 2 / Mycetic Spore 160

TROOPS
Termagant Brood x 18 90
Termagant Brood x 18 90
Trevigon 160
Trevigon 160
Genestealer x 10 / Broodlord with scything talons 188

FAST
Gargoyle Brood x 20 / Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sac 140
Gargoyle Brood x 20 / Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sac 140
Shrike Brood x 3 / Venom Cannon [color=red]120

Total 1503

Need aid as around 50% of the list I've yet to buy / model; and after playing orks for a bit, I'm trying to figure how best to play nids now. Here is my first bash. The Trevigons I will use as objective holding, whilst hopefully churning more troops for me to use. The Zoanthrope goal is to take out at least 1 tank before getting destroyed; then Hive with Warriors and Gargoyle will fly as fast as possible to the enemy lines. Genestealers will outflank.
Plus, Trevigon models, any hints and tips? The mycetic spore, I saw someone on YouTube that had used one of those megablocks things, dragons I think to good use.

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Old 29 Jun 2010, 16:46   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

I think it looks a little low on anti-tank. The tyrant should have 2x scything talons whihc iwll help some but only two zoanthropes will makes this a struggle.

I do not think the shrikes need a venom cannon but rending claws would make them more useful.
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Old 29 Jun 2010, 22:25   #3 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

Hm... Well, the first thing I notice is that you've miscalculated the cost of your Gargoyles. Each brood would be 160 points since you've given them Toxin Sacs and Adrenal Glands. That being said, I feel that the extra 80 points gained by running your Gargoyles with no biomorphs could be used to give your Tervigons Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sacs, and either Catalyst or Onslaught. This will help them boost your Termagants' combat abilities (and will improve the Termagants the Tervigons spawn as well).

I also think that you might consider giving your Hive Tyrant the Old Adversary upgrade. This will benefit both your Tyrant and his screening unit of Gargoyles. Specifically, the Gargoyles will gain more wounding rolls from Blinding Venom. This does make your Tyrant very costly for a 1500-point battle, so you may be better off sticking with Hive Commander or exchanging it for Old Adversary. You could also give him a Heavy Venom Cannon in place of his Scything Talons for some extra anti-tank, although it isn't quite as good as a Hive Guard due to its -1 on the damage chart versus close-topped vehicles. Still, it can be used to stunlock vehicles, essentially disabling them for a turn. Plus, your wings enable easier side-armour shots. If you do give him a Heavy Venom Cannon, then I would suggest Psychic Scream as one of his free psychic powers, since it can be used to affect nearby infantry while pretending to be fired at the vehicle you shot with your cannon.

If you want to go for a more anti-infantry route with your Tyrant then I would suggest either one pair of Brainleech Devourers (the less costly option) or a Stranglethorn Cannon, replacing your Scything Talons. You can give him Leech Essence and Paroxysm to support either of these guns.

I would also like to point out that Hive Commander allows you to outflank with one Troops choice. While it may not be effective in all battles, there is the option of outflanking with a Tervigon, allowing you to spawn Termagants from the sidelines.

I would agree that you need more ranged anti-tank. You should try to find a way to use a brood of two Hive Guard (or two broods of one) to complement your Zoanthropes' high-strength, low-shot attacks with a lower-strength, high-shot attack.

I hope my thoughts have been helpful.
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Old 30 Jun 2010, 08:14   #4 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

Yours thoughts are perfect - just what I need.

Your right on Gargoyles, whoops! (here come my excuses) I used Excel....just messed up on the equations, so those extra 40 points will throw my list out now anyways! Outflanking Trevigon...what a scary thought...for my opponent!

Will play around with points, see if I can get some more antitank in there - or options to change depending on whom I'm versing. Plus - will look into Hive Guard, do you like these models anyway. Will re-post a revised list in a mo.

Also, what's best for Trevigon for modeling? I want to field these as like the idea of a) spawning more models, even if they are canon fodder and b) a 6 wound monster sat on objectives. I've seen people use Carnifex..but seems to small, stuck on what to do. The hive with wings is easy enough, or forgworld do a pretty cool one...must just remember to use magnets for wings!
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Old 30 Jun 2010, 09:32   #5 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

The best tervigon conversion i've seen was on ebay, it used a starship troopers tanker bug i think with plenty of nid bits to make it blend with any nid army. very nice indeed. search it on google or ebay.
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Old 30 Jun 2010, 14:17   #6 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

HQ 1
Hive Tyrant, Wings, Old Adversary, Heavy Venom 280

ELITES
Zoanthrope Brood x 2 / Mycetic Spore 160
Zoanthrope Brood x 2 120
Hive Guard Brood x 2 100

TROOPS
Termagant Brood x 15 90
Termagant Brood x 15 90
Trevigon / Catalyst - 175
Trevigon / Catalyst - 175
Genestealer x 8 / Broodlord 158

FAST
Gargoyle Brood x 15 / Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sac 140
Gargoyle Brood x 15 / Adrenal Glands, Toxin Sac 140

Total 1498

OK, taking on-board the advice, got 2 lots of Zoanthropes now, 1 deep striking as normal, the other replacing the warriors; then the Hive Guard too. Then slight reduction on the troops numbers. Guess the main thing that is sticking out is there is a lot of points tired up in the Hive Tyrant who will be target number 1 - close to 300 is a lot of points....but do like the wings - but is he too much for 1500 games?
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Old 30 Jun 2010, 14:23   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

in a 1000 pointer i'd say defo, but in 1500 points though high, its not too bad.

Problem lies, as u say, in that he will be your opponents primary target and i wouldn't expect him to last long. for his points cost, i'd be tempted to exchange him in favour of a tyranid prime with 5 strong warrior brood plus kit for about the same points, you could then fill the second HQ slot with a tervigon perhaps.

I personally tend not to use tyrants in anything below 1850 points because of their points cost but thats me.
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Old 30 Jun 2010, 14:55   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

I think there must still be something wrong with your Excel spreadsheet. A few of your units don't have their proper points costs (your Gargoyles should be 120/brood and your Termagants should be 75/brood assuming you've got 15 in each). This puts you at 1558 points, however.

Now, you could get rid of your Tyrant and get a Warrior+Prime squad, but this would present fewer targets for your opponent's heavy weapons, making your Tervigons more vulnerable. If they die, they damage nearby Termagant squads, so I do think that an abundance of T6 models is necessary for their (and your Termagants&#039 survival. An important thing to consider when building a Tyranid list is how your opponent might divide his fire into your units. Basically, Tyranids want to have too many targets for their opponents to choose from, either causing them to split their fire or use up all of their shots trying to take down one brood. For example, in my list I run a Trygon with Regenerate and put it on my front lines, hoping that its size and closeness to my opponent's army will cause him to focus his fire at it, leaving my Tyrant and Tervigons relatively unscathed. Likewise, my three Tervigons just spawn more Termagant broods, leaving my opponent with five or more targets for his light weapons.

So, at the moment you have plenty of boltgun targets (Gargoyles, Termagants, and Genestealers) and a pretty good number of heavy weapon targets. I think that, in order to get to 1500 again, you might drop your footslogging (float-slogging?) Zoanthrope brood in favor of more Hive Guard or remove your Gargoyles' biomorphs. Unless you're fighting a mech list, I don't think you'll find more than one AV13/14 vehicle in a 1500-point list. Hive Guard are better than Zoanthropes at incapacitating transports since they have more shots and require no Psychic test; more shots means more failed vehicle cover saves. Plus, Hive Guard are T6, giving your opponent more heavy weapon targets.

Oh, and you can also use your Outflanking Genestealers for anti-tank. Even the feared Leman Russes are only AV 10/11 in close combat!
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Old 30 Jun 2010, 15:06   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

er...coughs, your right on the points! Not sure what has gone wrong there (me...)

cool - just done a few tweaks (without re-posting again), so bye bye Hive for now (he will be back!) and hello Prime with 4 Warriors - 1 with barbed strangler - (but will magnet this, just thinking if I go up against a swarm army), the rest with lash and bone swords.

Now that I've lost a monstrous creature, would swapping the Genestealers for Mawloc be a good idea? Again, nice model - I guess if you scatter away, then it's a wasted 170 pts, but still, chance of S6 AP2 pie template and the distraction it would cause...arrrrgh, so hard!

Your right, need to look at my whole setup, see what I would kill first, hence why I'm now attracted to a Mawloc popping up...hopeful in the right place!

I suppose I was worried about Land Raider - hence first learning towards Zoanthrope, but your right T6, double the shots is worth it. So, say, 2 lots of 2 Hive Guards, then the Zoan with spore (160) would this be best exchanged for more troops? I've got a Carnifex still from when I first started collecting nids in 4th edition, but they seem to be a lot weaker now.
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Old 30 Jun 2010, 16:31   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Back to the Nids - 1500

So, let me see... I'm guessing your list looks something like this:

HQ

Tyranid Prime: Pair of Boneswords, Scything Talons (90 pts)

Elites

Hive Guard x2 (100 pts)

Hive Guard x2 (100 pts)

Zoanthropes x2 plus Mycetic Spore (160 pts)

Troops

Tyranid Warriors x4: Lash Whips, Boneswords, Devourers x3, Barbed Strangler x1 (190 pts)

Termagants x15 (75 pts)

Termagants x15 (75 pts)

Tervigon (175 pts)

Tervigon (175 pts)

Genestealers x7 plus Broodlord (158 pts)

Fast Attack

Gargoyles x15 (90 pts)

Gargoyles x15 (90 pts)

Total: 1478 pts

Hm... The biggest problem I think you'll have is getting your Synapse Creatures to keep up with your Gargoyles, which will be necessary since they have the Lurk Instinctive Behavior. What if you moved one Tervigon to HQ and replaced your Prime and Warriors with a Shrike Brood? The Gargoyles could provide cover for them and you'd have a squad of Jump Infantry equipped with power weapons (assuming you gave them Boneswords). Now, you'd still be lacking in the Monstrous Creature department, so maybe you could replace your Genestealers and a Gargoyle Brood with a Trygon (The Tervigons can always make more boltgun fodder). Yes, the Mawloc is cheaper, but he really is only good for that S6 blast. Compared to the Trygon, he's really not that great in close combat and isn't even Fleet. Once he's locked in combat, he's only got a 2/3 chance of escaping with Hit and Run to burrow and blast a turn later, which is his primary method of dealing damage. Now, I suppose you could run a regenerating Mawloc for 195 points simply as a fire magnet, but I feel that those points would be much better spent on a Trygon. Not only do they have double the number of attacks but they also have a shooting attack, higher Weapon Skill, and can re-roll all failed to Hit rolls (which is especially useful if you're trying to destroy a tank that moved). To put it simply, I feel that a Trygon is superior to a Mawloc in all respects.

One last thing: if you have the points to spare, upgrade both Tervigons with Adrenal Glands and Toxin Sacs. This will benefit all Termagant broods within 6", making them a much more credible threat in close combat (they re-roll to Wound and strike first on the charge against Space Marines!)
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