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tau army help please!
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Old 25 Aug 2005, 01:57   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default tau army help please!

how many fire warriors should i use in my army 3 squads at max 2 how many?
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Old 25 Aug 2005, 02:04   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau army help please!

Punctuation or grammer would be nice, what do you want to know?
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Old 25 Aug 2005, 02:05   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: tau army help please!

Well, it really depends on the army. Mech Tau armies have less fire warriors than a static firepower army. I find that three maxed squads in devilfish is perfect for Mech Tau. Static Tau fire squads benefit more from smaller squads, because they can target the fire power were they want it and it help in the CC problems. I would say around 24-36 for Mech and 36-72 for Static.
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Old 25 Aug 2005, 02:19   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau army help please!

48 in my static tau..... all with pulse rifles. no transports no upgrades

the rest of the army is fairly mobile, pathfinders, suits, 'heads, 'sides etc
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Old 25 Aug 2005, 02:28   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau army help please!

i dont know, my firewarriors never really have a chance against orks, i mainly like kroot over fw's only for a few reasons like infiltrate, and their cheaper, and with like 20 kroots you get like 60 CC attacks if you assault
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Old 25 Aug 2005, 04:04   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau army help please!

Taking a stab at Fire Warriors, and good squad sizes, totally depends on you and your needs.

Basically, there are 3 flavors:

Maximized
Median
Minimized

How you configure your Fire Warriors is generally up to you, as none of the Fire Warriors specific upgrades, such as Carbines, Bonding or Shas'ui are necessarily grained in law for taking them, but they're useful here and there. Again though, they don't really have such a bearing in terms of how you're selecting your Team in the first place to fit into your army.

So consider what each squad type is going to offer you. Consider what your opponents do and how your Fire Warriors perform and how they are treated by your enemies. These tid-bits will greatly help you to discover just where your Fire Warriors should be. However, we can take a look at a couple of general points about our 3 defined flavors.

Maximized Fire Warrior Squads (12 x Fire Warriors):

In most armies, taking a maximized squad of Troops is never a bad thing, and looked upon as a step in the right direction. But I would invite you consider that thinking in that manner is a misconception. Each unit in the 40k has it's odds and ends, but maximizing troops being good while other things, such as elites, being minimized or taken in small supply isn't the right way either. There should always be a balance. If infantry makes a large impact in your game, or your theme, then if maximized Fire Warrior squads do it for you, then they're the ticket. No one will say otherwise that it's a bad choice in the end. A full 12 man team, on foot, is a great unit as it supplies you with as many Strength 5 pulse rifles as you can get. If this is the weapon that you want the most, you can stock up on up to 72 of them really quickly for only 720 points for example. However, maximizing a unit to maximize the effectiveness of a single weapon type or ability is considered cheesy most of the time (or even power gaming); although most Tau players will argue that it's not so easy to be a cheesy or power-gamer with Tau. The principle however, remains. So are 12 man teams necessary? Not really. Are they a good thing? Sometimes, if you're facing something that they perform well against. Is it a good choice? It can be, but it's not always a good choice. Fire Warriors are more than just shooting squads, they're also scoring squads and separate targets. A large squad will fall to non-scoring level at the 5 man mark, meaning you can take up to 7 casualties before your unit is broken. This squad, at maximum levels supplies 12 to 24 Strength 5 shots. All that for 120 points, up to 130 points with a character leading them. That's a very cheap investment for the equivalent of 4 heavy bolters, to a degree. Not bad, eh? Taking that 12 man team should really reflect you. If you're facing an opponent where many large squads are needed, then max Fire Warriors can be useful. If you need lots of infantry to absorb as much damage as possible, large squads will help there too. The downside to it, is that it will limit the number of squads you take, which actually increases just how much damage they can be subject to and if they're tangled up in combat by single model units or more, that's even more Fire Warriors who are locked in combat, which is not a good thing. So taking maximum squads has it's use and it's disadvantage. They key is keeping them in mind, when choosing your squads intelligently and using them wisely.

Median Fire Warrior Squads (8 x Fire Warriors):

If you look at most things in the game, there is an option for maximum and minimum. These are important, because players will take minimal levels of something they don't want or something that is required, in order to maximize something else. It turns into a game of extremes, but it leaves the "middle" out of the game, which is an important part of it that is over-looked most often. Of all infantry squads in all armies, Tau are one of the few that really benefit from the Median squad size. Maximized teams have disadvantages as well as Minimized teams have disadvantages. Both have their advantages, but it's the Median squad of 8 members which takes the best of both worlds, making more use of the advantage, while lowering the disadvantage, making the humble middle one of the better choices, in general, for the game. Of course, against various opponent's, one extreme or the other may be the better choice for you, but 8 man Fire Warriors teams are quite useful for their size and points. We're looking at a squad that costs anywhere from 80 to 90 points, for 8 to 16 Strength 5 shots. They will be broken to non-scoring level at the 3 man mark in the team, allowing 5 members to die before the squad is broken. It's actually a higher percentage of loss in terms of averages, but it's only slight, and in return, we have a smaller squad, which allows us to take more squads. More units, means more targets, less targets which will be actually fired upon or attacked and more chances for scoring victory points. A few maximized squads can be reduced quickly, versus many smaller squads will take much more to bring them all down to non-scoring levels. Median sized squads do just that for you and they even do it while taking a Transport as well, allowing a very mobile and versatile squad for their type, for a good price. This keeps us from maximizing one thing or minimizing another. We can take the middle ground and do well with it, unlike other armies.

Minimized Fire Warrior Squads (6 x Fire Warriors):

Taking the absolute minimum number on most squads, especially troops, will result in several slandering comments from cheesy to power-gaming. Most often, this is for good reason, because minimizing a troop selection is allowing a maximization of another selection, most of the time. In some armies, this allows massive advantage (such as marine armies). However, in the Tau army, we do not really benefit from this very much. We can easily get a lot of units on the board, for 60 to 70 points per unit, allowing a very large amount of squads, taking up a lot of space, but not occupying a lot of points, allowing us to field more of other units in large supplies. This is in effect maximizing our efforts elseware, while we skimp our own selections here. The most common use of this, is against combat specialized armies, because it keeps the minimum number of models in combat, allowing more models to shoot, most often. The other common use of this setup is with the Devilfish option, to allow more transports (our powerful skimmers) while taking less actual troops. There are advantages and disadvantages here, but the disadvantage is too grave really, as your squads lose out on so much and the sportsmanship usually flies right out the window. Minimized teams are far more useful and acceptable in smaller formats, such as Combat Patrol. Otherwise, in standard missions, the small Fire Warrior teams generally only allow us to quickly fill requirements while fielding more of other things. The reason it's not a good idea is because as limited as our Fire Warriors are, they're still a very integral part of the force for infantry. They're the cheapest way to get a lot of good strength weapons on the board with some mobility options and range. So generally speaking, the smallest possible squad is not a good idea for a troop selection, especially Fire Warriors. We simply don't have the armor to keep ourselves alive, considering it takes a 2 man team to become unscoring. This may seem like we're losing less in terms of scoring units and when they become non-scoring as we mass up all 6 troops of them quickly for cheap, but it is often called Munchkining, and not a good idea lest you be branded a power-gamer in some fashion.

So, do you need maximum damage? Versatility? Or maximum scoring potential? Once you hone in on which one really fits you best, you'll be able to better make the decision on which sized squad to take.

Tau are quite unique to have the chance to take 6:8:12 in their numbers for the minimums and maximums, as most armies have odd numbers in there somewhere. We happen to have even numbers in our categories, which works in our favor. Typically, I would suggest the medium ground with Fire Warriors, as we can take plenty of them, taking several units, while not going over-board or leaving too few behind. It's a good "all-comer" point of view in terms of Troops and Tau.

Cheers!
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Old 25 Aug 2005, 15:09   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau army help please!

Isn't 9 a medium sized squad? 6-9-12, increase of three.

It also bumps your average wounds on marines from 2 2/3 to 3, which increases the average kills to 1. Since the numbers are not whole, it really just firms up your chances to actually kill a marine.

Of course you still become under half when you lose five, so the extra 10 points does not help you there, but it does increase your killing power.

At 11 you need to lose six to go under half. I often find myself lacking points, and am hesitant to knock a squad down from full strength, but this could be the way to go I think.
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Old 26 Aug 2005, 00:08   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: tau army help please!

For medium I usually get ten fire warriors, it give me enough guys and enough shots, and they will last a bit longer than a squad with 8 guys. well that's the way i do it, they way I usually set up my army list is like this I have one squad with 12 Fire warriors and then a squad of ten Fire warriors with a devilfish because your sqaud of 12 guys can last longer but i want my squad of ten to get in quicker withouth getting shot at.
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