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The case for Tau.
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 20:58   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default The case for Tau.

Some have no faith in their dynamism or tactical style equating their philosophy with weakness. Tau can beat the snit out of imperium, orcs, nids and eldar. The only problem fluffwise would be huge numbers of marines (which don't exist) or just about every tomb fleet in the galaxy showing up or a combination waagh, hive fleet and double thick major crusade. . . Tau worlds under attack are evacuated a.s.a.p of civilians/tech and serve only as staging grounds for battles with the objective of killing the enemy. So it doesn't matter which world the imperium(insert chosen enemy) would hit unless they get something lucky to use like a tidal flood from melting ice caps they won't be able to pin down the population and make the victory mean anything.

Tau forces hit hard, fast and decisively then fade before a battle can start to look 'losing' for them.

Tau industry and techology is efficient, tau don't feed their forces into meatgrinders. More than most races excluding spore driven orcs, tyranid fleets that eat their own soldiers both live and dead after each battle and finaly the 'numberless' mankind tau sustainably apply and renew their force relying on tactics that preserve their own numbers, using alien auxiliaries and not 'burning away' their own planets/resources against a threat.

The tau empire has been expanding, between a fith and a fourth of their population being one of the most well armed and armored forces galaxy wide. Thats not counting their allied auxiliaries.
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 21:12   #2 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

Tau are interesting because their power is growing far faster than any other race (except possibly tyranids). Orks are too stupid to work together, so they can't really have huge invasions (ie. enough to take out an entire race). The necrons stay exactly even, since their soldiers just teleport out and heal for another fight. The eldar are powerful, but their time is waning, and the imperium is just in a rut (although they could drown the tau in human blood if they really wanted to).

The Tau on the other hand, are fairly weak right now, but if it can be assumed that they continue their progress, then each passing century makes them more and more dangerous. 6000 years ago, they were a bunch of tribes living in mud huts. Now they are a interplanetary empire. In another 6000 years, who knows where they will be.
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 21:36   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

Number of planets also seems to be part of a weak argument becuase despite the numbers the planets of the imperium some of them filled with primitive and regressed human societies some on the record as alive but actualy centuries dead don't seem to contribute the empire of man at all.
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 22:10   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

Trick:

Every point you have come up with has been matched and countered countless times. All you really have to do is read the 'Imperial Assault -Tau Survival' thread to find counters to the points you have made.

'Some have no faith in their dynamism or tactical style equating their philosophy with weakness.'

I don't think anybody in their right mind would think that their rather impressive tactical style and concern for losses are a weakness. Their philosphy is most definatley not, the simple fact that they are allied with the Demuirg ensured that they got Alaitoc to wipe out an Ork Waagh that would have wiped out their Empire.

'Tau can beat the snit out of imperium, orcs, nids and eldar.'

*Laughs so hard it hurts* .........sorry........

'or just about every tomb fleet in the galaxy showing up or a combination waagh, hive fleet and double thick major crusade'

*Painful laughing starts again*

Ok,. Firstly I don't think the Tau even know who the Necrons are. You obviously have no idea, at all, how powerful Necron ships are. From only about 8, 1 managed to land on Mars, on Mars!. At the heart of what is, without any doubt at all, the most heavily defended system in the entire Galaxy.

'Tau worlds under attack are evacuated a.s.a.p of civilians/tech and serve only as staging grounds for battles with the objective of killing the enemy. So it doesn't matter which world the imperium(insert chosen enemy) would hit unless they get something lucky to use like a tidal flood from melting ice caps they won't be able to pin down the population and make the victory mean anything. '

First off, Tau are the weakest playable race in the game in terms of Navel dominance (well most things but specifically this). You need Navel dominance for evacuation. Plus there is only so many times they can run, the Tau have very few worlds. Leviathan and Kraken took hundreds of Imperial worlds. The Tau don't have 200. I also think you will find that taking planets as staging posts for further assaults, colonisation, industry etc plus defeating all enemy troops that engage you makes a victory worth quite a lot. :

Tau forces hit hard, fast and decisively then fade before a battle can start to look 'losing' for them.

So do Marines (of which there are a Million and each is the equivelant of an XV8). Yet they take casualties. The Eldar fight how the Tau do and have been doing so for thousands of years, plus they probably do it slightly better. Yet they also take losses and are a dying race, the Eldar still takes losses from this and they have far more resources, ships, troops etc than the Tau will even be able to muster in the next 3000 years.

'Tau industry and techology is efficient, tau don't feed their forces into meatgrinders. More than most races excluding spore driven orcs, tyranid fleets that eat their own soldiers both live and dead after each battle and finaly the 'numberless' mankind tau sustainably apply and renew their force relying on tactics that preserve their own numbers, using alien auxiliaries and not 'burning away' their own planets/resources against a threat. '

Tau industry is very effecient but it is on a tiny scale. 1 industrial sector will probably produce more in the way of weapos, tanks etc in a year than the entire Tau Empire probably does. They have work forces of billions upon billions on each world. There aren't billions of Tau in an entire Sept.

You also seem to assume that the Tau take very few losses in battle just because they don't want to. They take losses just like everyone else. Mankind has a very sustainable force due to how many people are born in the Imperium each day. The Tau don't. The Tau try to minimise losses because they can't afford them, so as they expand and get into more conflicts they will become more and more stretched.

'The tau empire has been expanding, between a fith and a fourth of their population being one of the most well armed and armored forces galaxy wide. Thats not counting their allied auxiliaries.'

Very well trained, but no more so than Guard. Very well equipped, but there isn't many of them in the whole scale of things. Plus the Tau are very poor at large scale actions both and land and any space combat. This at the end of the day is how wars are won. The Tau need to improve vastly in these areas before they can hope to compete.

Which if they keep under the radar, and don't keep grabbing the Imperiums attention, if they can hold off Kraken Splinter fleets and get their allies to stop any serious Ork Waaghs for them. Then they might be able to improve in these areas.
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 22:39   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

Let's put it this way...

People who support the idea of Tau being a "main" race of 40K are like people who listen to Fox news, lied to, often deluded, and devoid of any real facts.

Tau are not a main 40K race. Are are only marginally larger in terms of galactic importance than Kroot, Demiurg, Hrud, Lacrymoles, Laxotl and Tarellians... none of which, save Kroot, even have rules, let alone a Codex.

Tau lack the numbers, the tech or the experience to be considered one of the "big guys" of 40K. Their fleet is about as efficient as the floating scrap heaps the Orks pilot, and they are so insanely arrogant they truly think they can conquer the galaxy, despite having less combined military and political might than a sub-sector.
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Old 07 Aug 2005, 23:22   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

I agree with Wargamer. The main race has to be human. I mean, Tau was not one of the original armies that started when 40K came out. I remember when i was in the 9th grade, being about 5 years ago, there was no Tau. Fluff wise, there is so much going on for humans. U got the many crusades along with the backgrounds of each chapter of space marines and so on. I love playing the Tau but the reality stands that The Emperium if fully assembled, could take out the Tau Empire. But that would make them vulnerable to attacks so they didn't. The Emperium has the most territory, resources, and manpower. Its going to take many many many millenia for Tau to even come to a quater or half of what the Emperium is now. The Tau are young and ignorant of their surroundings. But that comes natural coming from a race that is only 6000 yrs old. But there developemnt is much faster than humans. During Human history, humans has always been fighting each other. The Tau which i give credit haven't fought each other since the coming of the Ethereals. That right there is perhaps their only advantage towards humans. Rather than spend their time fighting each other, they all strive for one goal. That why i think is why they are so advanced. The entire race was unified a whole lot faster than humans will ever be. Their civilization has not been slown down by war and strifes as humans had been. Thats their edge against humans.
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Old 08 Aug 2005, 00:29   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

Well, you have a choice between listening to Por'Hui Propaganda, as Wargamer puts it, or else listening to Imperial Propaganda from Wargamer and Veq.* * Pumping up one army at the expense of another in the fluff has a long and glorious history, and has been going on as long as the game has existed.* It is all "propaganda". When it comes down to it, you can believe anything you want to about your own army.* It's not like the fluff itself is even consistent in that regard.

In the fluff, the Tau are weaker than every other playable race except for Dark Eldar (who I will argue only survive because they are so elusive).* On the other hand, they have a lot to be proud of, since they have done so much with so little.* They are also evolving much faster than any of their foes aside from Tyranids.* Hopefully the new codex will shut down some of the current criticisms.* Don't take the debate itself personally.

When we say we like the Tau fluff-wise, we don't just mean because they make good victims for our own stories, do we?* *
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Old 08 Aug 2005, 01:55   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

As a newcomer in WH40k I was fed tons upon tons of degrading remarks about my race by the older players in the group I just joined. Stuff like: "Well, I guess you could possibly win a battle if you get real lucky." I am sad to say I showed up att my first gaming night with my newly assembled and painted army with rather low self esteem and hoping to at least kill something. Facing Chaos Marines, Space Wolves and Demon Hunters all in one night. After 4 battles, 2 against Space Wolves and 1 against each of the other armies, I won 3 and lost 1.

My point? Is Tau the mightiest race in the Universe?

No, but forcefeeding people their own remarks is just pure fun...
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Old 08 Aug 2005, 02:00   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

I'm not pumping up the Imperials at all, all that I'm doing is telling it how it is with regards to fluff at the moment.

Can you in all honesty see any faults in my arguements?.

It's not like the fluff itself is even consistent in that regard.

It is reasonably consistant. It has some indescrepncies but for the most part it is quite consistant.

I'd like the Tau to be powerful, for the Imperium to have another serious Empire to contend with and have a huge Galaxy spanning war with. But they just aren't. I like no army/race in 40K more than any other. I just hate to see people making one force seem far more powerful than what they actually are (often due to fan-boy-ism or complete lack of knowledge of fluff and/or only knowing fluff for a certain army). If somebody tried to claim the Dark Eldar could take an Ork Empire I would be exactley the same. If somebody claimed the Eldar could take on the forces in the EoT I would look at that objectively too (not actually quite sure how that would turn out, not like it would ever happen but still.........).

I'd support the Tau if it was claimed that the Dark Eldar could wipe them out, or that a minor craftoworld could.

All I am trying to do is give a reasonable assesment of fluff without any silly, unreasonable bias (all the forces are part of the hobby that we enjoy after all).
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'My point? Is Tau the mightiest race in the Universe?

No, but forcefeeding people their own remarks is just pure fun...'

That is 'in-game' though. The table-top game itself has very little if any relation to the fluff. I think Tau are by far the coolest and most balanced army in the actual game and would like to see more Tau players in my area (hence why I'm starting to collect them again, I got rid of my old Tau army due to the painting and modelling being aweful, I baught them off a freind).
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Old 08 Aug 2005, 03:20   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: The case for Tau.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
I'm not pumping up the Imperials at all, all that I'm doing is telling it how it is with regards to fluff at the moment.
I know.* ** I am just teasing a little given the nature of most Imperial Propaganda regarding other races, when it is even willing to admit they exist.* That one was aimed a little more at Wargamer, anyway, since I sometimes think that he makes the Tau out to be weaker in certain respects than the fluff supports.

The inconsistencies in the fluff arise from the fact the GW often exaggerates the strength of each army every time a new codex comes out.* The latest Tyranid codex is pretty clear that the Tyranids are the eventual death of mankind.* The last Necron codex was similar.* 40k is all about hopelessness.* Arguing that the Tau will eventually be destroyed by the Imperium follows similar logic to the argument that the Imperium will eventually be destroyed by the Tyranids (or the Necrons, for that matter).* You just can't use current fluff to make predictions about eventual outcomes, since GW can wield The Plot like a hammer and has done so repeatedly in the past.
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