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Old 16 Feb 2011, 15:12   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Hey gang, sorry I have been out so long but life has been nuts. Here is the long and short of my return though. My local group/shop has gotten cleared/certified to hold a competition this summer to qualify one winner to go to a regional competition and the winner from there to the 'ard boys competition in chicago. Thus local ternimates are starting up. Next weekend, building up to the 2500 pts for the actual competition, they are having an 1800 tournament. I know others that have already signed up include 1 necron, 2 imperial guard, 1 blood raven, 1 ultra marine, 2 dark eldar, 1 eldar, 2 space wolves, and an ork. Any thoughts or advice on this as I am trying to put together strategies. I am working on an army list but this will be my biggest to date.

I have available:
2 crisis suit commander (1 with AFP, 1 with CIC)
4 broadsides
6 other crisis suits (some magnets some hard configured)(have 3 more but not finished)
15 stealth suits
9 shield drones
3 marker drones
14 gun drones
40 kroot
12 kroot hounds
20 vespid
1 pirahna
1 devilfish
1 hammerhead/ionhead/skyray
45 firewarriors (some built with parts or converted vehicle commanders)
7 pathfinders
2 teams of sniper drones

Thanks for the input partners also first battle is a slaughter/last man standing or most left at end of 5 rounds, scoring points based on how many units you have left afterwards, 2nd is standard 3 objective battle and final for the day is an all night/darkness fight. Hope everyone has been well, catch you soon.
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Old 16 Feb 2011, 16:46   #2 (permalink)
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Thats a surprisingly balanced array of enemies but with the night fighting and so many eldar you will really need markerlights a lot to negate all that turbo boosting cover .

and i also wouldn't even think about the stealth suits since the blood angels and the eldar are going to be too fast for 18 inch range and it'll also make stealth fields useless since they'll be able to close the distance with ease.

for the same reason i wouldn't use crisis suits though they are mobile their going to be well outclassed by the eldar and will struggle to get enough cover.

Maybe try something similar to this.

1750 Pts - Tau Empire Roster

Total Roster Cost: 1749

HQ: Commander Shas'el (1#, 107 pts)
1 Commander Shas'el, 107 pts = (base cost 50 + Bonding Knife 5 + Hard-wired Target Lock 5 + Stimulant Injector 10 + Missile Pod 12 + Plasma Rifle 20 + Multi-Tracker 5)

attach this to the 12 man squad

Fast Attack: Pathfinder (11#, 196 pts)
8 Pathfinder, 96 pts = 8 * 12
1 Devilfish, 100 pts = (base cost 80 + Disruption Pod 5 + Multi-Tracker 10) + Targeting Array 5

Fast Attack: Pathfinder (11#, 196 pts)
8 Pathfinder, 96 pts = 8 * 12
1 Devilfish, 100 pts = (base cost 80 + Disruption Pod 5 + Multi-Tracker 10) + Targeting Array 5

Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 60 pts)
6 Fire Warrior, 60 pts = 6 * 10

Troops: Fire Warrior (6#, 60 pts)
6 Fire Warrior, 60 pts = 6 * 10

Troops: Fire Warrior (12#, 120 pts)
12 Fire Warrior, 120 pts = 12 * 10

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (3#, 265 pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 95 pts = (base cost 70 + Hard-wired Target Lock 5 + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle 10 + Multi-Tracker 5 + Team Leader 5)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 85 pts = (base cost 70 + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle 10 + Multi-Tracker 5)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 85 pts = (base cost 70 + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle 10 + Multi-Tracker 5)

Heavy Support: Broadside Battlesuit (3#, 265 pts)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 95 pts = (base cost 70 + Hard-wired Target Lock 5 + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle 10 + Multi-Tracker 5 + Team Leader 5)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 85 pts = (base cost 70 + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle 10 + Multi-Tracker 5)
1 Broadside Battlesuit, 85 pts = (base cost 70 + Twin Linked Plasma Rifle 10 + Multi-Tracker 5)

Fast Attack: Piranha Light Skimmer (9#, 285 pts)
3 Piranha Light Skimmer, 285 pts = 3 * 60 (base cost 60) + Disruption Pod x3 15 + Targeting Array x3 15 + Fusion Blaster x3 15 + Seeker Missile x6 60

Heavy Support: Hammerhead Gunship (1#, 195 pts)
1 Hammerhead Gunship, 195 pts = (base cost 90 + Railgun 50 + Two Burst Cannons 10 + Disruption Pod 5 + Flechette Discharger 10 + Multi-Tracker 10 + Seeker Missile x2 20)

i think this is a pretty balanced list and is one of three i'm considering for my next tournament but i think you could modify it a little to make 1800 points.

Last edited by Antisocialnerd; 16 Feb 2011 at 16:58.
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Old 16 Feb 2011, 18:56   #3 (permalink)
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Wait, could you explain the "don't take crisis suits" thing for me? I can't imagine a situation where you would EVER want to leave crisis suits out of a Tau list... Even if they're "outclassed" by Eldar (which I don't really get the parallelism between suits and anything the Eldar have) anything else you could use would be MORE outclassed (except maybe Broadsides, but once again, different role).
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Old 16 Feb 2011, 19:13   #4 (permalink)
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super fail
u forget our most important strategic asset:
CS
hola
making list for u
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Old 16 Feb 2011, 19:35   #5 (permalink)
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Commander
Shas’la: 132
Fireknife
Stimulant injector
Shield Drone X2
Targetting array

Bodyguard X2 :200
1 Fireknife
1 Deathrain
Targetting array
Shield drone X2

Elite:
Shas’la 109
team leader
deathrain X2
Target lock
Drone controller
1 shield drone

Shas’la 104
team leader
deathrainX 2
Target lock
Drone controller
1 gun drones

Troops
kroot X 2
10 kroot 2 hounds (in ‘finders)
167

Fire warriors:
12
Team leader with bonding knife
130

Fast attack
Pathfinders X2
6 of ‘em (just use FW’s with caras)
2 Fishes
304

Vespids
11 (including strain)
182


Heavies
Railhead
Burst cannons (better vs elder)
Multi tracker
Decoy
175

Broadsides X 3
Team leader with Target lock and 2 gun drones
TL plasma rifles X3 (as u will meet loads of high armor saves)
270


u got 27 points left
hope u like it
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Old 16 Feb 2011, 19:38   #6 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Exigency102 View Post
Wait, could you explain the "don't take crisis suits" thing for me? I can't imagine a situation where you would EVER want to leave crisis suits out of a Tau list... Even if they're "outclassed" by Eldar (which I don't really get the parallelism between suits and anything the Eldar have) anything else you could use would be MORE outclassed (except maybe Broadsides, but once again, different role).
Suits Suck in CC and although they are capable of avoiding it against most enemies the eldar will hunt them down and kill them like lame puppies specifically their shining spears i'm sure dark eldar are also quite capable with similar units

i recommended this list because nearly all the units in it either operate at extreme range or can move 12 inches and fire giveing them pretty good protection from assaults

Imperial guard are also very adept at destroying 3+ armour

and what is it with you saying suits are so essential sure their good and versatile but they hardly have to be included in every list without fail and to say a list without is automatically no good shows how narrow minded you are strategically speaking clearly your far too locked into a specific way of thinking you must be quite predictable.

sending suits and vespid against the eldar isn't a good idea and the imperial guard is adept at taking out those kinds of units.

@Loykar how can you say super fail to me when presenting such a bog standard list and it's full of holes and obvious errors it's exactly the kind of list the eldar would chew up and spit out Vespid in particular their AP3 weps are overkill against eldar and their init 5 is practically useless in CC if i was playing eldar vespid would be the last thing i'd bring and it doesn't have enough firepower in any department against any enemy.

also does that hammerhead really not have a disruption pod???? or are you confusing decoys and dis pods the points on it don't add up and your broadside unit isn't even legal either tone down your criticisms of others or put in more effort.

Last edited by Antisocialnerd; 16 Feb 2011 at 21:08.
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Old 16 Feb 2011, 23:08   #7 (permalink)
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If you arent taking at least one team of crisis suits then you are playing a gimped army. Oh look, That IG player has his 2 Manticores and 3 earth shaker Basilisks flingin up to 9 pizzas per turn and you deployed first, oh look, no line of sight anywhere. Oh well i guess i can use that positional relay i spent the points on and drop 3 twin linked fusions at bs4 on open topped vehicles within minimum range and end that malarkey second turn on a 2+ roll. I have literally NEVER encountered a match that crisis suits have not paid for them selves in points of units they eliminate.
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Old 16 Feb 2011, 23:49   #8 (permalink)
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First of all, lokyar, that list is shit. I don't know if you forgot to look at your codex or if you were just writing it with your eyes closed while thinking about something else entirely. I'm sorry, but you really need to put more time into coming up with something if we're going to take our time to read it.

First of all, the commander probably does not need a targeting array. I can't be sure because you said he's a Shas'la (last time I checked those are the grunts getting full of holes on the front line, not Commanders in the best piece of weaponry the Empire has to offer).

You've completely maimed those suit teams as well. They don't play any role at all. While target lock MAY help against an enemy with numerous specialist squads (like Eldar) they aren't going to have enough shots to really do any damage against vehicles or larger squads (e.g. IG and Orks). You either need full three man teams loaded out to deal with multiple threats or MAYBE one man suicide teams meant to deep strike and take out high priority targets. You're wasting money on the shield drones and gun drones unless it's a suicide suit. I played a game against CSM with 2 deathrain teams and a burning eye team without losing a single suit.

Kroot can't be mounted in a transport and you need at least 15, probably 20 (5 hounds for both).

You're wasting points on the FW team leader and bonding knife. If they're falling back from shooting, then they've lost too many men to be any use anymore, and if they've been engaged in CC they're not going to live to tell of it.

Don't necessarily see anything wrong with the Pathfinders, but taking 2 teams is going to depend on how many points you have to spare.

I agree with Anti on the Vespid. They're too expensive for overkill. If they're not worth it against marines, they're certainly not worth it against Eldar.

Railhead: not burst cannons. Explain to me how they're better against Eldar when SMS has the same strength and AP, with an additional shot, another 6" of range, AND no line of sight required. That's right. They're not.

Broadsides:
Three teams of 2 with targeting array. Set up firing lanes. Even grav tanks will be wary of crossing into lanes of two 3+ hits with re-roll railgun fire. No plasma. Went over that already, it's overkill. Plus SMS owns. Went over that already too.

It seems like you've geared this list entirely towards combating Eldar. That's not necessarily a bad thing, but there are going to be other armies in the tournament and articulate didn't state whether or not you could change your list. Also, this list would suck against all the armies anyway.

--------------------------------------------------------------------------------

Now that I'm done agreeing with you Anti, it's time for me to do deliver my rebuttal, haha. I'm not being narrow minded, it's the codex that narrow minded. I know we've disagreed on this before, but we both came to the same conclusion that it's all in the way you play it. It's very hard to come up with multiple builds for the current codex. Widespread belief is that you have to take as many suits as possible to play Tau. I'm afraid I'm going to have to subscribe to that belief until something changes.

My suggestion to solve the speed dilemma presented by the Eldar is this:
Three crisis teams with two deathrains and a burning eye (or all three deathrains), targeting array in the third hardpoint. Set up screens with your fire warriors and firing lanes with your broadsides. Those railguns will be able to reach out and touch anything on the table, in the meantime, your suits can JsJ over the fire warriors and probably be able to do the same (albeit with a little less punch) unless your playing spearhead. Broadsides can deal with the heavily armored tanks, while the Crisis teams pop transports (trust me, 4-6 str 7 shots re-rolling 3+ does pretty damn well against armor) then the fire warriors can have a heyday with that 5+ armor. If any one manages to close with your line, your suits will be safe behind your fire warriors, and once they're dead, your kroot can assault and lock up guys long enough for your suits to be FAR out of harms way. This same strategy applies for all armies, except that the Fire warriors lose effectiveness quickly against marines (probably 'crons too, idk).

---------------------------------------------------------------------------

articulate, I'd post a list, but I've already spent too much time writing this out, so I don't really feel like at the moment.
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Old 17 Feb 2011, 00:11   #9 (permalink)
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You need suits for necrons, having played against 'crons many times i will tell you now that plasma weaponry makes them cry.

firewarriors are indeed not much help against warriors. Also remember that any sensible necron list has a monolith that has armour 14 all around and ignores melta so railguns are the order of the day with them, or you can quite easily ignore it and concentrate on the warriors and lord.
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Old 17 Feb 2011, 02:28   #10 (permalink)
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Hey I'm not sure about this as I don't have my codex with me but dont we have some wargear that let's us bring in one unit a turn from reserves on a 2+? This seems like a game of survival to me, so why don't you take alot of deep striking units and drop one in per turn, try to get last turn then drop them all in and most units should survive. Am I wrong? Just thought that most people are going on the basis that you need to do something when really you just need to stay out of the way.
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