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convience me I'm wrong
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Old 14 Dec 2010, 00:44   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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So there are several troop/eliet/fast attack units that I really just refuse to play just because I'm convienced in my mind that they are just terrible in play. So I'm going to list them out mostly because I hear you all keep playing them however I really don't think they are worth the points. And granted I'm being biased in the fact that I've only really faced SM and CSM

1. Kroot - I'm sure they look nice and they have good flavor but I can't see myself deplying these guys I mean one blast template would most likely take out most of a squad and with 6+ or no save at all in CC they will most likely get one save if that and then be done from counter attacks that pretty much just have to hit. and thier shooty is so so

2. Gun drone Squadron - 12 points for something with a BS of 2? I mean really??? not only that but no way to upgrade them??? yea not worth the DS only to get shot up or just assulted.

3. Piranha light skimmer team - Yes extra gun drones for extra kill points and maybe a platform for extra seeker missles. However I'm on the fence with these guys as I could see them as great tank hunters with fusion blasters....

4. Vespid Stingwings - I haven't used these guys but I kind of want to mostly to shoot up standing SM with thier AP3 weapons... but thier cost is really what's putting me off.

5. Sky Ray Missile Defense gunship - Wayyyyyyy to expensive for what it provides

6. Etherial's - As far as I know no one uses these guys.

So anyways some of these may be easier to convince me or otherwise. I really just want to know if any of them are really worth it.
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Old 14 Dec 2010, 03:20   #2 (permalink)
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So there are several troop/eliet/fast attack units that I really just refuse to play just because I'm convienced in my mind that they are just terrible in play. So I'm going to list them out mostly because I hear you all keep playing them however I really don't think they are worth the points. And granted I'm being biased in the fact that I've only really faced SM and CSM

1. Kroot - I'm sure they look nice and they have good flavor but I can't see myself deplying these guys I mean one blast template would most likely take out most of a squad and with 6+ or no save at all in CC they will most likely get one save if that and then be done from counter attacks that pretty much just have to hit. and thier shooty is so so

1. Check out Gonefishing's acticle on kroot..it's eye opening. To that point Kroot are actually one of the best "utility infielder" units the Tau have. By themselves they're not stellar but when you add hounds they really come into thier own! If you have and forest cover they get a +3 save and getthier full 6" move. Go to ground and they get a 2+! They proved an excellent screening element for your more precious Crisis suits, broadsides, and pathfinders. They're scoring and CAN load into a 'fish. The can infiltrate and outflank making for some nasty suprises. Shooting isn't great but if you set them right, just 10 kroot gets 20 dice rapid firing...not terrible.

2. Gun drone Squadron - 12 points for something with a BS of 2? I mean really??? not only that but no way to upgrade them??? yea not worth the DS only to get shot up or just assulted.

2. your correct these basically are way sub-par. sometimes you can get a sneaky backstab because most ignore them...but against marines your throwing away points.

3. Piranha light skimmer team - Yes extra gun drones for extra kill points and maybe a platform for extra seeker missles. However I'm on the fence with these guys as I could see them as great tank hunters with fusion blasters....

3.These are a very flexible unit as well. people tend to overload them points wise and try to use them as a lynch pin unit but they just don't have the survivabilty. By just adding two to your army, one with a Fusion Blaster, Targeting Array, and D-pod, the second plain you have an excellent screening unit/opporunity tank hunter. Because one of the two has a d-pod both get the cover save. When taking hits, you allocate to the "ablative" piranha with no upgrades, leaving the fusion bird to do the hunting. If tehy get shot down, they take up a nice bit of space and hopefully make a nice roadblock for enemy transports buying you precious time to shoot

4. Vespid Stingwings - I haven't used these guys but I kind of want to mostly to shoot up standing SM with thier AP3 weapons... but thier cost is really what's putting me off.

4. Against marines these can be usefull. Not super durable but as a cleanup unit to take out stragglers from crisis onslaught these can do the trick. If your not tayloring your list for marines. these are just not worth the FA slot were pathfinders and piranha dwell.

5. Sky Ray Missile Defense gunship - Wayyyyyyy to expensive for what it provides
5. Yup.

6. Etherial's - As far as I know no one uses these guys.
6. In high point games for fun, one of these with a FW squad shooting at a base BS4 honor guard can be fun. An actual boost for Tau moral is nice too. But ultimately those are points you could spend on smart missle systems.
So anyways some of these may be easier to convince me or otherwise. I really just want to know if any of them are really worth it.
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Old 14 Dec 2010, 15:05   #3 (permalink)
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1. Kroot: personally I love them, in small teams they slow the enemies advance giving me more shooting time. In big mob/squad (I currently field a mass mob with 20 kroot and 8 kroot hounds plus have models for a couple more small teams) they make to large of a flanking force to be ignored which with infiltrate I have forced opponents to shift force back pulling them off the main fighting line. Do they die, yes, do they slow my opponent giving me the needed shooting time for the win, yes.

2. Gun drones: yes, a waste for the points whose only purpose I have found is throw away to slow enemy advances.

3. Pirahnas: I would love to use these more but I have personally had bad luck with them. 1 or 2 seem to work okay at slowing opponent and drawing some fire but they always get swatted way to quick for me.

4. Vespids: Okay I love vespids and have 2 full squads of them for larger fights to the point where my local SM and CSM opponents now watch specifically to see if I am bring them into a match as I use them as a kind of flanking assault troop against their marines/chaos marines to wipe out squads at a time. As I said, love em.

5. Skyray: for the points it is a great dust collector on my shelf, when it comes out it is as a hammer head but even then I usuallly prefer broadsides...

6. Etherials: to be honest I have thought about them but dont have one as of yet. Fielded one once loaned to me for a match to try it out by a local player who used to play Tau but have not gotten one yet so dont really have enough experience with them.

Hope it helps and of course it is all my opinion based on my experiences.
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Old 14 Dec 2010, 17:38   #4 (permalink)
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1 Kroot are great for what they do score infiltrate on top of an objective and hit the dirt 3+ save in buildings if you do that 2+ in a forest/jungle thanks to field-craft 7 points to score an objective with a guy equivalent to a terminator in defense from ranged attacks 70 points is much better than the 60 + 85 for the firewarrior transport you'll need to do the same job,

2 Gun drones on their own are a waste of time against anything other than horde

3 Piranhas takes a bit of skill to use these right as blockers but are very effective at slowing mechanized formations look at this for a basic example of how it works

New 1750 list 13/12/10

4 Vespids great against space marines Necrons rubbish against everything else

5 Skyrays technically are the best value thing in the tau army a hull worth 90 points seeker missiles worth 60 points two networked markerlights worth 60 a target lock and two burst cannons all for 135 points a bargain.....technically

the thing about skyrays though is you need to build your army around them you can't just slot them in like a hammerhead and expect any decent results these require a lot of planning both in the army list stage and on the tabletop for advanced players only but they can be devastating i should make an example list sometime.

6 Ethereals are very risky twin linked morale is very useful to the tau to keep teams of pathfinders and broadsides together and free fearless unit but downside is if they die they could potentially lose you the game a big risk most people feel isn't worth it.
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Old 15 Dec 2010, 14:48   #5 (permalink)
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Gun drones:I see what you mean about gun drones, If you get them in a crisis/broadside set just convert them to shield drones.

Kroot: Suprisingly useful when in cover, kroot are a sort of meat shield to absorb enemy fire while your fire warriors move in fo the kill. (a bit like kauyon)

Piranha: I don't have any but the idea is your zip through enemy lines to behind a tank and blow it up with a fusion blaster.

Vespids: I don't have any of these either, but if i did I would use them like this: hammerhead destroys enemy transport, vespids zoom in and the enemy to death. (vespid neutron blasters have a short range but Str 6 and Ap3, which isn't bad)
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Old 15 Dec 2010, 22:37   #6 (permalink)
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Well the only bad thing currently is my group doesn't have any wooded terrain yet... I will soon rectify that and then put some kroot hounds and other kroot on order. You've convienced me to at least try them out and I'm thinking of dabbeling in some vespids and pirana's but they seem pretty situational. But who knows I could fall in love with them. All the others meh I can live without.
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Old 17 Dec 2010, 13:14   #7 (permalink)
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by the way...

If a Ethereal is killed every tau unit must take a leadership test But...
Every tau unit that takes the test gets the preferred enemy speacil rule (not kroot, vespid or drones) for the enemy(s) your fighting!
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Old 28 Dec 2010, 08:20   #8 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Greatshaper2 View Post
by the way...

If a Ethereal is killed every tau unit must take a leadership test But...
Every tau unit that takes the test gets the preferred enemy speacil rule (not kroot, vespid or drones) for the enemy(s) your fighting!
YAY!! we get a USR that helps us out in close combat, which we STILL suck in, even with that rule. Our low initiative is painful and usually we get wiped out before its our turn to attack.
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Old 28 Dec 2010, 14:27   #9 (permalink)
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The ethereals rules are a disgrace.

Why would we want a CC bonus? Especially when the fluff says that what happens when the Tau see him killed, is that they march forward emptying there guns into the enemy lines

What we should get is relentless combined with a kind of Bladestorm ability.
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Old 28 Dec 2010, 14:39   #10 (permalink)
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Perhaps so HappTau, but then people would have to stop joking about us and take Tau forces seriously which would do 2 things; remove GW's favortie toy joke as such, and make opponents pay attention to Tau forces (and I'm sorry I like slaughtereing them and having them wonder how that happened from a "second rate force"(I've had someone say that)). Basically yes I am agreeing with you but they had to counter balance the rerolling of failed leadership/moral checks somehow.
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