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tau higher organisation
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Old 28 Jul 2005, 17:36   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default tau higher organisation

When we look at the codex, we get a view of the hunter cadre. And thats about it. Ironically, the cadre plays a small role in the overall strategy of tau war. So, how do tau go about organising their armies? We have next to no fluff, and must make our own assumptions, base don what little fluff we have, lots of luck, leaps in the dark and guessing.

What fluff do we have:
We know the name of the larger formations of tau armies are ither (number) cadres, or battles. We have 2 examples of the former - the commander who killed slannesh led 6- a six-cadre, and Kais' dad was commander of the fifth ten cadre on t'au.

From what i can gather the maximum number that can be efficiently commanded at one time is 12. Indeed, the dragonfish entry in the epic list states up to 12 cadres or other formations can be commanded. THats not to say larger formations dont exist. On the contrary- shas'os are known to command armadas, and tihs could be 50+ cadres, but of all these he can only personally command 12 at a time.

So, how are the cadres organised? the codex states they are made up on the spot for whatever mission is needed. I think this is flawed. It exists so we can all happily create differnet 40k armies, but on the grander scale it is too anarchic and chaotic to be appealing to the tau. the one piece of fluff supporting this is the concept of the (number) cadre. that, if fire warriors made one cadre, and stealthsuits another, it would just be dodgy as hell. But the epic list suggests that indeed, this is the case.

Looking at the epic list, a cadre is more than a fighting unit. it is an organisational unit.
Looking at the epic list, for example, a line cadre is 8 fire warrior teams. crisis suit cadres also exist. Beyond this, all other units are contingenets eg stealth contingent, hammehread contingent. and these count as independent formations (whatever that is!)

So, what do we make of all this? How can we piece it all together to get an overall picture of the tau military machine?

As i have said, i regard the ad-hoc codex method as not firring the tau. its too anarchic, unless its to take on a mission near its base of operations (marauding orks near a fio mining camp for example, and the cadre must mobilise its forces).

thinking of how tau operate, the Kor'vattra (fleet) is the main element in expanding the tau empire. My assumption is expeditions are carefully planned, and provisioned with men and materiel. FIr example, an aun will officially lead the expedition. A Kor element will be included to man the ships. A Shas element will exist to take care of any ground campaigns, or any fighting in general. Fio work teams will obviously be a part to fix and repair any damaged shas, or Kor piece of Kit. And the Por will have to come along to liase their way through everything.
How are the Shas organised?
My guess is the concept of a (number) cadre will play a part here again. A shas'o will come along, and will command a number of cadres, based on the level of importance of the expedition. My guess is the (number) cadre will specifically refer to line cadres, ie fire warriors. My guess is accompanying these forces will be crisis cadres, and various contingents of other units - pathfinders, hammerheads etc. And these guys train until they are called upon to perform a mission. THe mission can be to escort the Por down, launch a strike against ground based sites that are targetting the tau etc.
How will they work? My guess is the shas'o will call together all his shas'el. Have a big ol' council of war, where he tells them what they want. they study the layout of the target, the surrounding area, nearby enemy forces etc. they then decide on a plan of action, eahc shas'el will be given a specific mission to perform. Each shas'el will only have by rights his fire warriors, and shas'vre bodyguards. depending on the mission, various contingents will be added to his force to help it succeed. FOr example, if he's given the job to take out a threatening armoured column, he's get hammerheads/broadsides etc.they train, endlessly. pathfinders are sent in (or are already on site) and give the signal when to strike. and then the cadre goes to war. (and we all know what they do then!)

So, how are the cadres filled? my guess is when a shas'o is told to lead such an expedition he will be able to choose the shas'el he wants with him. Obviously, a lot of shas'el would be under other commands, so the shas'ar'tol would give him a list of suitable candidates, and he picks from them. maybe he'll pick them through familiarity, or maybe becuase they follow the same tactical philosophy as he does. He will also pick the contingents, or else the shas'ar'tol will simply say that he gets the standard lot of x stealth contingents, X hammerheads etc. Or else, based on the expedition, and the threat index, he and the shas'ar'tol will decide on what is needed and he gets it then. the shas'el will then decide on which squad swill be in their cadres. And again, the selection will be based more on which shas'ui they know leads them, or they come from the same battle academny etc, or else the shas'ar'tol will simply give them the dquads they will lead. I would assume the commanders of the expedition would have a big input into the composition of their forces, and would not appreciate the shas'ar'tol stuffing it down their throats.

I think i've mentioned most of the stuff i can. If someone else has more stuff to add, please do.

Discuss.....
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Old 28 Jul 2005, 17:49   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

well, that is a good diea but mayeb they just train people, and bundle X stealths X HH x FW's x Kroots &x Xv8's together and give them to the Shas'O. then the Shas'els mix and match....so its (large uni.) of stealths, FWS HH Ect, but all are broken down into the cardes when they deploy via manta.

Kinda what you said.

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Old 28 Jul 2005, 22:25   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

Better system.
Hunter cardes are companies.
The cardes in a ship make a Division.
The ships form the army.
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Old 28 Jul 2005, 23:02   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

Since the Manta Missile Destroyer carries a single Cadre, I would guess that is the highest organizational distinction that can be made without factoring in the Air Caste.
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Old 28 Jul 2005, 23:14   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

I'd have to say Deadnight, it's like you've read my plot notes from "Broken Plains" fiction I've been working on for the last few months.

I developed all the background and characters so I can move on and write about them. You assumptions are very similar to mine

I believe the Kor'O, Shas'O and Por'O alongside the Fio'O will have a decision making body overseen by the Kor'Vattras Aun. This council with aides would dictate the actions of the Tau expedition. Ultimately the Aun is the final word should major disagreement break out. For as all Tau know, they are given their path and espected not to tread on others.

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Old 29 Jul 2005, 14:22   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

There are no higher organization levels than Hunter Cadre. And, if you think about it, aside from a single bit of boxed fluff, there are no real limitations on the size of Cadre.

The fluff states clearly that according to GW a typical army is represented by a single Hunder Cadre, yet in the same box it states that a Cadre is around 50 Tau. This is fine and well, but really contradicts itself if you consider that you can have 50 Tau in a 500 point army, and you would be hard pressed to feild a 1000 point army with only 50+ Tau.

There are two ways to extrapolate the meaning of said fluff. One is that the Cadre is flexible in composition ranging in size depending upon the expected mission and/or enemy troop strength. And two, the core of a Hunter Cadre is 50+ Tau meaning fighting fire caste members only, not the entire Hunter Cadre. Taken together, a Hunter Cadre expecting to face a powerful enemy might coop troops, suits, or a combination of both from other cadre. Or you may consider vehicles as non-cadre specific, thus attached much as heavy weapons squads are attached to modern infantry companies today.

I tend to think of Cadre like the old regemental system. Brigades went to war made up of battalions. The battalions were drawn from different regiments, but regiments themselves were an administrative unit not a combat unit. Thus you might find a brigade of soldiers (3000-5000 men) made up of troops from 3 or 4 different regiments, even though the regimental command structure was not in place.

To state in more simply in Tau terms, a Hunter Cadre is the administrative unit that can be brigaded together to form armies.

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Old 29 Jul 2005, 15:40   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

Larger organisation would only hinder an army like the Tau - Cadres are flexible and self suffiecient.

Not to say larger forces wouldn't exist - several Cadres would work in co-ordination to achieve a greater objective, but there wouldn't be a 'Supreme Commander' par say. Each Cadre is led by their own Shas'el or Shas'o, with the most senior commander acting as the general - giving generalised orders, depending on the situation. But unlike the Imperial Guard, loss of the commander wouldn't cripple the other Cadres - they would simply carry on under their own commander and the next more senior commander would take the role as general.

If that made sense...

The Tau army is very flexible and adaptable - much like a Space Marine Chapter. There's a Chapter Master, but he doesn't personally order each element - he leaves such things to his Captains. 'Go here and do this' is probably the limit of most Chapter Masters, unless he's personally taking to the field.

I seem to remember there were ranks beyond 'o that are purely there for overall Caste command - though I can't remember where I saw/heard that. I can't find anything of the kind now.

Air Caste command systems are different, to a certain degree. They have Admirals (Kor'o) that command fleets, but they are probably still alot more flexible then the Imperial Navy - no staying in formation!

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Old 30 Jul 2005, 10:37   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

Wanax, Andromidus. you each make one mistake. tau are aleins, and yet you assume they follow the human regimental system. i dont see why they should.

Remember, there IS a higher level to the cadre. As i said, there is a #cadre, like Kais' dad's fifth ten-cadre on t'au. I would assume 12 would be the highest size for these, just for efficiency of use.

Andromidus, there IS a supreme commander - the shas'o. Lookie, from Epic: Shas’o do not only lead a Cadre, they are the supreme
commanders for an entire Tau army and co-ordinate entire campaigns and planetary annexations
the shas'el are his captains, for want of a better word. and he generally wont show on the field unless it is safe to do so, like near the end of the campaign, such as shas'o r'myr of FW fame.

My belief is slightly similar to wanax. a cadre consists of troops. I would think in a typical cadre there is 80 fire warriors (epic fluff) led by a shas'el with his shas'vre bodyguards. crisis ta'ro'cha and other units are attached to his cadre, mission by mission. here is where the flexibility o the cadre is seen. in how it can be organised.

I disagree with the notion that cadres are just decided on a whim by the shas'el - "ooh, let me see, i want X,Y, Z in my cadre. Leave out A, and C". Its too anarchic and disorganised for the tau.

the hunter cadre is only a tiny part of the war machine. I feel epic, for its scale gives a far better view of the whole army, and here is what a tua army is made of:


Tau armies have a strategy rating of 3.
TAU CADRES –
Fire Warrior Cadre 8 Tau Fire Warrior Teams.
Battlesuit Cadre 4 XV8 Tau Crisis Battlesuit Ta’ro’cha. Upgrades: any 250 points
TAU CONTINGENTS – Up to 2 Contingents may be taken per Cadre in the army. They are independent formations.
Formation Type Units Cost
Pathfinder Contingent 4 Tau Pathfinder Teams. May have 2 Devilfish Troop Carriers for free. Upgrades: Pathfinders, Stealth, Drones, Tetras, Piranhas
Stealth Battlesuit Contingent 6 Tau XV15 Stealth Battlesuit Teams. Upgrades: Stealth, Pathfinders
Broadside Battlesuit Contingent 4 Tau XV88 Broadside Battlesuit Ta’ro’cha. Upgrades: Broadsides, Drones
Hammerhead Contingent 4 Tau Hammerhead Gunships. Upgrades: Hammerheads, Skyray, Swordfish, Piranhas
Scorpionfish Contingent 1 or 2 Tau Scorpionfish Super-heavy Missile Gunships.
Stingray Contingent 4 Stingray Missile Gunships. Upgrades: Skyray, Piranhas
Gun Drone Swarm 4 Tau Gun Drone Squadrons. Upgrades: Drones, Heavy Drones
Pathfinder Tetra Contingent 6 Tau Pathfinder Tetra Light Skimmers. Upgrades: Tetras, Piranhas, Pathfinders

ALIEN AUXILIARY FORMATIONS
Kroot Kindred 1 Kroot Master Shaper plus 9 Kroot Carnivore Squads.
May additionally have: (each option can only be taken once)
+5 further Kroot Carnivore Squads for
+3 Kroot Hound Packs
+3 Krootox Herds
+3 Great Knarlocs
Gue’vesa Auxiliary Company 1 Gue’vesa’ui Command plus 12 Gue’vesa Human Auxiliaries
Teams. May have 6 further Gue’vesa Teams for +75 points

TAU AIR CASTE FORMATIONS – Up to one third of the points available to a Tau army may be spent on Tau Air Caste
Formations. They are independent formations.
Formation Type Units Cost
Fighter Squadron 3 Tau Barracuda Superiority Fighters
Bomber Squadron 2 Tau Whiteshark Bomber
Strike Craft 1 or 2 Tau Tigershark Strike Craft
Assault Ship Squadron 1 or 2 Tau Moray Assault Ships
Ground Support Craft 1 Tau Manta Missile Destroyer
Orbital Support 1 Tau Hero Class Cruiser
Dropship 1 Tau Orca Dropship


Ive ignored points, and upgrades, but state the units just to point out what exactly is in the tau arsenel
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Old 30 Jul 2005, 11:03   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadnight
Tau armies have a strategy rating of 3.
TAU CADRES –
Fire Warrior Cadre 8 Tau Fire Warrior Teams.
Battlesuit Cadre 4 XV8 Tau Crisis Battlesuit Ta’ro’cha. Upgrades: any 250 points
TAU CONTINGENTS – Up to 2 Contingents may be taken per Cadre in the army. They are independent formations.
Formation Type Units Cost
Pathfinder Contingent 4 Tau Pathfinder Teams. May have 2 Devilfish Troop Carriers for free. Upgrades: Pathfinders, Stealth, Drones, Tetras, Piranhas
Stealth Battlesuit Contingent 6 Tau XV15 Stealth Battlesuit Teams. Upgrades: Stealth, Pathfinders
Broadside Battlesuit Contingent 4 Tau XV88 Broadside Battlesuit Ta’ro’cha. Upgrades: Broadsides, Drones
Hammerhead Contingent 4 Tau Hammerhead Gunships. Upgrades: Hammerheads, Skyray, Swordfish, Piranhas
Scorpionfish Contingent 1 or 2 Tau Scorpionfish Super-heavy Missile Gunships.
Stingray Contingent 4 Stingray Missile Gunships. Upgrades: Skyray, Piranhas
Gun Drone Swarm 4 Tau Gun Drone Squadrons. Upgrades: Drones, Heavy Drones
Pathfinder Tetra Contingent 6 Tau Pathfinder Tetra Light Skimmers. Upgrades: Tetras, Piranhas, Pathfinders

ALIEN AUXILIARY FORMATIONS
Kroot Kindred 1 Kroot Master Shaper plus 9 Kroot Carnivore Squads.
May additionally have: (each option can only be taken once)
+5 further Kroot Carnivore Squads for
+3 Kroot Hound Packs
+3 Krootox Herds
+3 Great Knarlocs
Gue’vesa Auxiliary Company 1 Gue’vesa’ui Command plus 12 Gue’vesa Human Auxiliaries
Teams. May have 6 further Gue’vesa Teams for +75 points

TAU AIR CASTE FORMATIONS – Up to one third of the points available to a Tau army may be spent on Tau Air Caste
Formations. They are independent formations.
Formation Type Units Cost
Fighter Squadron 3 Tau Barracuda Superiority Fighters
Bomber Squadron 2 Tau Whiteshark Bomber
Strike Craft 1 or 2 Tau Tigershark Strike Craft
Assault Ship Squadron 1 or 2 Tau Moray Assault Ships
Ground Support Craft 1 Tau Manta Missile Destroyer
Orbital Support 1 Tau Hero Class Cruiser
Dropship 1 Tau Orca Dropship
Glad you posted this...

As you can all see, a single Firewarrior Cadre is 8 Fire Warrior Teams. Now in Epic, the stands are 5-men to a base, so we'll use that and call it 40 Tau.

That's 80% of a Hunter Cadre. That means everything else makes up the last 20%. It shows well that Firewarriors should fill the main body of the army. The Battlesuit cadre has 4 stands, each of which has 3 Battlesuits, so there's 12 men. We now have a Cadre of 52, the Shas'El makes 53.

However, this does not reflect well the configurations available to the 40K scale Tau army. Three, 3-man Crisis Teams, and the Shas'El with bodyguard gives us 12 Suits, so that's close enough (assume the Shas'El just "replaces" a suit in the formation). However, few armies bring all 12, and normally they have Hammerheads or Stealth Suits as well.

Thus we can conclude that the Hunter Cadre is not represented in Epic scale. In all probability, the Hunter Cadres will be mixed together, collecting like units together into specialist formations.
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Old 30 Jul 2005, 15:15   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: tau higher organisation

Quote:
Originally Posted by Deadnight
Wanax, Andromidus. you each make one mistake. tau are aleins, and yet you assume they follow the human regimental system. i dont see why they should.
You misunderstand me.

What I ment was that there's no rigid regimental system, and that they are alot more fluid then human organisations - orders from high are given to Cadres rather then whole Regiments. Loss of their commanding officer wouldn't imped their grand strategies to the point it would to, say, the Imperial Guard.

Besides, I can't take what it says in Fire Warrior as canon - it was a dreadful book.

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