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Interpretation of Rules
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Old 25 Sep 2010, 21:36   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Interpretation of Rules

I don't know if this has been discussed on this forum at all, but on another forum I am a member of, it has been a largely debated issue.

If you have a hard wired multitracker, can you fire a twinlinked weapon AND another weapon as well?

The argument that was the biggest was TLflamers and a missile pod in the same turn. Some people argued that it was unfair and twisting the rules. Others though that if you can fire a single twinlinked weapon without a multi tracker, then it counts as a single weapon and that with multi tracker you can fire an additional weapon.

I just want to know what your opinion on it is.
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Old 25 Sep 2010, 22:15   #2 (permalink)
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If it's Twinlinked, it counts as one weapon on it's own, and if i'm not mistaken you are allowed to have 1 support system for the XV8 (wired support systems don't count) Therefore this is a smart loophole in the rules and is totally fair. When in doubt, consult the rulebook and Codex.
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 14:48   #3 (permalink)
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It's entirely legal twinlinked counts as one weapon system hands down with a hardwired multitracker you can even have three different weapon systems i.e plasma rifle fusion blaster and missile pod and fire any two you like whenever expensive yes legal totally.

or at least i'm almost certain i'll double check my codex when i get home

Last edited by Antisocialnerd; 26 Sep 2010 at 14:54.
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 16:10   #4 (permalink)
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Yep, it would cost a pretty point (hope you cought the pun) but in certain situations this would help very much, for example, I have a suicidal XV8 (twinlinked fusion blaster, sheild, failsafe) bent on destroying vehicles close range, of course the tau would probably never do this. Anyway, that is also legal, no matter how many people claim it's unfair.
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 19:43   #5 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Armadon View Post
Yep, it would cost a pretty point (hope you cought the pun) but in certain situations this would help very much, for example, I have a suicidal XV8 (twinlinked fusion blaster, sheild, failsafe) bent on destroying vehicles close range, of course the tau would probably never do this. Anyway, that is also legal, no matter how many people claim it's unfair.
Yeah thats fine too i hate people who say something is "unfair" if the rules allow it the rules allow it end of discussion if you want to whine to someone whine to games workshop and every race has something someone could consider "unfair" this is WAR people stop whining and start killing you should get any advantage you can however you can because i guarantee that your enemies are doing the same.
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 19:52   #6 (permalink)
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Let me present to you.....

THE DEATH KNIFE MUAH HA HA

...or the fire rain. But death knife sounds much more hardcore.

Shas'o/el/vre with Twin Linked Missile Pods, Plasma Rifle, and Hardwired Multi-tracker.

Yes, it does cost a lot, especially considering the only way to get a unit of three of them is to use a Body Guard. But for me, the pros outweigh the point cost. Pros such as:

Makes for a GODLY alpha strike. Because this unit has Twin Linked Missile Pods, you dont have to waste markerlights on this unit and can use the markerlights on another unit, like the Twin Linked Flamer and Missile Pod Unit that is also awesome, but isn't quite as good at shooting transports without a Twin Linked Missile Launcher.

You can still deny those marines their armor saves.

And compared to the other builds:

3 Fireknives(PR MP MT)- 5.25 Hits per turn, Kills 2.71 Marines, 4.38 GEQs, 2.25 Pen/Glancing Hits on a Rhino
3 Deathrains(TLMP TA)- 5.33 Hits Per turn, Kills 1.48 MEQs, 4.44 GEQs, 2.66 Pen/Glancing Hits on a rhino

Pretty much very similar. FK are slightly better at killing Marines and DR are slightly better at killing GEQs and Transports.

But TOGETHER?

3 Deathknives(PR TLMP HWMT 1 shas'el)- 7.27 Hits per turn, Kills 3.41 MEQs, 6.06 GEQs, 3.22 Pen/ Glancing Hits on a Rhino

So the deathknife kills a marine more than a fireknife and two more marines than a deathrain, 1 and a half more guardsmen than both other builds, and gets about one more pen/glancing hit on a transport. So in efficiency, they are 63% more effective at killing MEQs, 37% more effective at killing GEQs, and 31% more effective at disabling Rhinos. So on average, they are:

44% more effective than the other builds.

But is this cost efficient? Well, let's find out. (Yes, I am doing all this math right now as I write this, so it will be a big surprise for me too.)

Unit of 3 fireknives (PR MP MT)- 186 Points

Unit of 3 deathrains (TLMP TA)- 159 Points

Unit of 3 Deathknives(PR TLMP HWMT 1 shas'el)- 249 Points

So if you average the cost of the fireknife and the deathrain together, the Deathknife is:

44% more expensive than that average.

Whoaaaaa. We're actually getting what we pay for for once (can anyone say Devilfish?). I should probably go through and find out power vs cost for Deathknife vs. Fireknife and Deathknife vs Deathrain just by themselves, but I think my point has been made already and any further math-hammer would just make people sleepy.

I really think this is a unit that should be taken. Instead of having Deathrains that are not as good at the end game when transports are gone, and fireknives that aren't as good at the beginning when there are lots of transports without markerlight support, you have a unit that will be useful throughout the entire game, and can allow you to be more experimental with crisis suit configurations for other units. Like a torch squad

If you got all the way through this, I applaud you and thank you for your time.

Plasma Rocks
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 20:13   #7 (permalink)
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Plasma, I got all the way through that and my word that is the best idea since sliced bread! Absolutely intoxicating. Mind if I use it? Death knives FTW! I never use my XV8 for much of anything but you've convinced me. Thank you! If you ever have a battle report where any of the three units were listed, please post or let me know. This sounds REAL good. Antisocialnerd, i agree with you all the way and you have my full support, it's not unfair unless the book dictates it.

Last edited by Armadon; 26 Sep 2010 at 20:19.
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 20:44   #8 (permalink)
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Yeah deathknives are great but you also realize that you can easily add hard wired drone controllers and some gun drones and that the bodyguard squad also has access to the special issue weapons now put those two together and create a unit specialized in killing horde at a range of 18 inches 24 technically stuff like twin linked burst cannons and cyclic ion blaster and twin linked burst with airbursting fragmentation launcher you could easily make a 3 man squad that would decimate an entire horde unit those two alone pump out 15 shots and a large blast template that ignores cover.

plenty to think about for those who only just realized they can do this sort of thing lol
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 20:58   #9 (permalink)
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Antisocialnerd View Post
Yeah deathknives are great but you also realize that you can easily add hard wired drone controllers and some gun drones and that the bodyguard squad also has access to the special issue weapons now put those two together and create a unit specialized in killing horde at a range of 18 inches 24 technically stuff like twin linked burst cannons and cyclic ion blaster and twin linked burst with airbursting fragmentation launcher you could easily make a 3 man squad that would decimate an entire horde unit those two alone pump out 15 shots and a large blast template that ignores cover.

plenty to think about for those who only just realized they can do this sort of thing lol
Unfortunately, horde armies are harder and harder to find these days. Imperial Guard Players use chimelta vendetta spam, eldar and dark eldar are all mech these days, Tyranids are maxing out MCs, orcs are spammin either battlewagons or nob bikers. Necron are infantry heavy, but aren't really hordy, and you will lose if you try to max out horde killing weapons against them. They wouldn't even really work against ourselves even considering people are realizing how horrid Fire Warriors are in 5th ed.

I've built a new list based of the deathknife that I think will really excel as an all comers list.

I would post it here, but Mods might get mad at me. So I will post it in the army list board and put in a link for this thread as well.
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Old 26 Sep 2010, 21:05   #10 (permalink)
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Either way is awesome for me, I fight hordes so i'll take your idea into account anti, but I also fight heavy vehicles like baneblades and rhinos, this is really helpful guys, thank you.
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