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Fire Warrior good at close combat
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Old 10 Aug 2010, 01:24   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Fire Warrior good at close combat

I know that tau really lame at close combat, but what are the chanses that 2 Fire Warrior will kill a chaplen in 1 round of close combat ???
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Old 10 Aug 2010, 06:03   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

slim and none. bearing in mind that the chaplain will go first due to innitiative, have about 3-4 attacks and probably power weapons so no save = 2 dead fire warriors.
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Old 10 Aug 2010, 07:02   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

Let it be known that I am calculating this because I'm bored. Right off the bat, I'm going to say the odds are near zero. That said, let's talk numbers:

There will be two separate calculations here, depending on who initiates combat.

I'll look at the chaplain getting the assault bonus first. The chaplain hits first due to his higher initiative no matter what. He has a 66.66% chance to hit and a 66.66% chance to wound, and due to his power weapon armor saves are useless here. This gives him a 44.44% chance to wound for each attack. Given that you need both fire warriors to attack in this scenario to kill him in one round, there is a 30.87% chance that we will deal no wounds. Now the fire warriors have a 33.33% chance to hit and a 33.33% chance to wound, while the chaplain has a 33.33% chance to fail his save. This gives the fire warriors a 3.70% chance to wound for each attack. This means you have a .137% chance to kill the chaplain.

Result: 30.87% chance of surviving * .137% chance of killing = .0423% chance to kill the chaplain in one round of combat.


Now if you initiate combat the odds will be slightly better, but still not good. Without his bonus attack, there is a 30.87% chance of both fire warriors surviving and a 24.71% chance of only one dying (the bonus attack allows for a single warrior to kill the chaplain). If one fire warrior is killed, that means you again have a .137% chance of killing the chaplain.

Result: 24.71% chance of surviving * .137% chance of killing = .0339% chance.


Now, if both survive you have four chances to wound while needing only two wounds to kill. This is moving a bit out of my knowledge of statistics (which is itself pretty basic), but I'll do my best to guess on these odds. There is a .00018% chance all 4 will wound, a .00487% chance of 3 wounding, and a .12695% chance of 2 wounding. Added together, this gives a .13200% chance to kill.

Result: 30.87% chance of surviving * .132% chance of killing = .0407% chance.


Bottom line is that you have a .0423% chance if he attacks you and a .0746% chance if you attack him. Like I said at the beginning, it's near zero. Long story short: if you manage to kill a chaplain with two fire warriors, brag about it to no end. Especially since I didn't count the odds of passing the moral test after having all but two killed off.

P.S. - All stats are taken from the 4th ed. Tau Codex and the 5th ed. Space Marines Codex with no special equipment considered.

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Old 10 Aug 2010, 07:08   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

so what i said .

How come you ask briansun? you planning on committing harry'karry with your fire warriors?
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Old 10 Aug 2010, 13:44   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

no, I asked because out of that slim chance of it happening it did, and it killed my team mates chaplen. the chaplen was assulting through cover and the tau and Photon granads
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Old 10 Aug 2010, 13:47   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

If thats the case thats got be the greatest defier of the odds since david and goliath!

Nice one, however i wouldn't expect it to happen again if i were you.
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Old 10 Aug 2010, 15:04   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

Quote:
Originally Posted by mixer86
If thats the case thats got be the greatest defier of the odds since david and goliath!
how about 10 strom guardians talking down the sangunor and a squad of death company
or
a defiler talking out a fully fuctioning warhound titan and surving the nuclear explosion afterwards?
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Old 11 Aug 2010, 01:56   #8 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

how bout a dwarf wing combat agenst a titan by combat resalotion ???
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Old 13 Aug 2010, 00:32   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

I once had a squad of firewarriors kill off a lictor (previous codex) in the turn it came into play. These things do happen, and may even be part of the reason this game is so fun.
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Old 14 Aug 2010, 16:29   #10 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default Re: Fire Warrior good at close combat

I recently had a close combat in which 10 standard FWs with no shas'ui were assaulted by a squad of 3 bikers, one of which being a captain.
At the end of combat, the FWs had killed 2 of the bikers and 3 FWs died. A really good CC as far as tau goes. The FWs passed leadership and 19kroot+7hounds joined the battle completely annihilating the captain before he even got to attack (gotta love those hounds).
In fact, the entire game was heavily tau favored CC.
In another part, 8 pathfinders and a shas'el killed 3 bikers, one with a power fist. Additionally, the pathfinders were in dangerous terrain, and when they were subsequently assaulted by a 5 man biker squad, one biker was lost to dangerous roll, and when the pathfinders were finished off, the bikers had to make another dangerous roll to cover a cap point, losing another biker to dangerous terrain roll.

As a tau player, I like to engage things in assault for several reasons. 1) consolidation move is extrememly advantageous to the typically stationary tau units. In the above example where the pathfinders and hq assaulted 3 bikers, the pathfinders were able to move 12" in their assault phase, movign into dangerous terrain on the consolidation and compromising a further 2 bikers because of the terrain advantage while at the same time giving the unit a new position from which to fire markerlights. As you know, heavy weapons can't be fired if the unit moved in its move phase. It is not limited by assault phase.
2) tau units are generally inexpensive and worth throwing into CC as long as they can hold a more expensive unit( or more mobile unit away from more expensive tau units.
3)because of shield drones, tau units not only often get in a couple of atacks before the enemy, but also gives some good protection against power weapon use.
4) let's face it, kroot and their hounds are some of the best CC per point value troops in the game. On a charge, you're looking at a good at a good 70+ attacks at a pretty decent initiative.

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