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Kroot, which squad(s) are better
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Old 07 Jun 2010, 18:22   #1 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Kroot, which squad(s) are better

I am trying to decide if one squad of 20 kroot + 12 hounds is better then two squads of 10 kroot + 6 hounds. I realize that it partially depends on what my opponent has, but I don't know that yet. I am preparing for a blind engagement, meaning my opponent doesn't know what I have and vice versa.
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Old 07 Jun 2010, 18:36   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

What works for me is 12 kroot with 8 hounds, as unit of 20 is fairly easy to handle and as a whole it is a fairly effective combat unit provided it lives long enough to get into CC.

However if that is all the models you have then i would go with the 2 squads, as they can cover multiple parts of the table. And it prevents you from putting all your kroot in one basket, as a few well placed templates might take out a whole 32 person squad, while they would have to split fire to kill both smaller squads.

So my votes for the smaller squads
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Old 07 Jun 2010, 18:58   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

In that case I'd actually use one squad of 10 kroot and one squad with 10 kroot and 12 hounds. 36 attacks at I5 on the charge... I use the large squad as an outflank unit and the other as a "sniper" unit in cover.
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Old 07 Jun 2010, 21:12   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

Hmm, that's a toughie. I prefer fairly large squads of kroot since they need numbers to be effective, but I also like the idea of having two of them. Do you have more models so you could run two medium-sized squads? I usually run two squads of ten carnivores and twelve hounds, and it works well for me (but I have an irrational affection for the hounds!).

Actually, with the models you have, I would try specializing the squads. Make one of them a minimal squad of ten carnivores for an assault screen or infiltrated pillbox, probably infiltrating. That will leave you with enough to do a maximal-assault squad of ten carnivores and twelve hounds. Put them in outflank mode and use a positional relay to bring them in at the right time. That is, without question, my favorite Stupid Tau Trick!
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 04:49   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

From my own experience, I would say divide them into even squads. This gives you two Troop choices (to seize objectives), or allow for two fairly robust units that can Infiltrate or Outflank as the situation warrants.

They'll be vulnerable no matter what you do, but NOBODY 16 models zipping in on a flank and eating a random support squad. ESPECIALLY nobody wants it done TWICE. Two teams of 10+6 in this case is just added insurance-- It gives you an excellent chance of a team turning up where and when you want them.

As a personal recommendation-- If you keep with a block of 20+12 (and that's a damn nice block), use them to Outflank, and then give your commander the Positional Relay. This device will let you call that mammoth block in at the right time; after that, it's only hoping that the "position" they come in on is the proper one.

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Old 11 Jun 2010, 11:22   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

I tend to run them in two ways - My Kroot Assault Unit, depending on the mission/terrain I normally bring them in as Outflankers [normally using the positional relay] and the unit consists of 10 Kroot x 10 Hounds.

This seems the optimum level for me, 60 attacks on the charge - 30 of which are I5, and 10 wounds to remove (the Hounds) after there initial assault to guarantee that your I3 Kroot get the full 30 Attacks. The Key to using Kroot as a successful assault unit is the Weight of attacks and the ability to make sure that all of those attacks come off.

Apart from that Kroot are fairly fragile Leadership wise, so I would never Maxout a single squad to 20 Kroot 12 Hounds - to many eggs in one basket there, and if it goes wrong you could lose the whole unit in one foul swoop.

The other use I have for Kroot is screening, or ablative wounding. For that I use a Squad of 10 basic Kroot - Depending on the game tactics I am using I will either use this unit to screen off a more valuable unit from assault (which its worth noting you can also do with your assault Kroot unit if the game calls for it) or I use them as an ablative wound squad for my Commander if I am playing Ninja. If your playing Ninja against a really shooty army [or in my case, when I started using this tactic a WH player with 3 Exorcists] sticking the commander and his Drones in cover attached to a 10 Man Kroot Squad guarantees survival. They have 10 Kroot and 2 Drones to get through (all with saves) before they can touch the commander. If assault Troops get close you can detach the Commander and use the Kroot to screen him and his Drones or throw them into assault while you run away

Most armies I build however have two 10 Kroot/10 Hound Assault Squads - to me its the most effective size and configuration for the lowest possible points cost.
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Old 11 Jun 2010, 15:05   #7 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

Would be fun to see Kroots having Mob Rule like Orks. :P

Curious, any reason not to add a shaper in it to prevent leadership problems?
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 04:50   #8 (permalink)
Shas'Ui
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobb
Would be fun to see Kroots having Mob Rule like Orks. :P

Curious, any reason not to add a shaper in it to prevent leadership problems?
Cost combined with vulnerability to Str 6 Instant Death, is the only 2 things that immediately come to mind. There is the added bonus in that he can take a pulse weapon instead of his Kroot Rifle, but, if you're making an Assault unit, that may be less-effective, as he has 5 attacks on the charge with the Kroot rifle as opposed to 4 with a Pulse weapon.
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Old 12 Jun 2010, 11:09   #9 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

Quote:
Originally Posted by Charistoph
Quote:
Originally Posted by Dobb
Would be fun to see Kroots having Mob Rule like Orks. :P

Curious, any reason not to add a shaper in it to prevent leadership problems?
Cost combined with vulnerability to Str 6 Instant Death, is the only 2 things that immediately come to mind. There is the added bonus in that he can take a pulse weapon instead of his Kroot Rifle, but, if you're making an Assault unit, that may be less-effective, as he has 5 attacks on the charge with the Kroot rifle as opposed to 4 with a Pulse weapon.
Your forgetting the ability to give your kroot a 6+ save :P

Seriously though, i have never seen the point in giving my kroot that armour save, they are taking cover saves most of the time anyway, nearly every ranged weapon in the game denies it, and it just seems a waste of points. Has anyone had a better experience with upgrading the armour of their kroot?
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Old 13 Jun 2010, 07:11   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Kroot, which squad(s) are better

I ran some mathhammer on it once. According to the probabilities, you will come out slightly ahead with carnivores IF they go straight into melee. Since they can outflank, and a positional relay can bring them in at the right moment, fairly often they can get into assault without getting shot at first. My reasoning is like this: It costs you 1/7th of the cost of a carnivore to save 1/6th of them, so you should come out ahead. With the hounds it's a wash, as it's 1/6th of the cost to save 1/6th of them. Anyway, I tried it once or twice, and it just didn't feel as impressive. It felt like I lost more in swings than I gained in saves. That might be just perception, or it could be that I wasn't used to having the shaper there taking up so many points, but I went back to armorless, shaperless squads and I've been happy there.
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