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In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 18:31   #1 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

A bit of an inflamatory title for the topic but none the less true, in my opinion that is. So I recently decided to give my Tau a break and have started Eldar. I've been having an overwhelmingly positive experience with my Eldar as a result. I didn't have the worst record in the world with my Tau and now that I've been using Eldar I've been able to go undefeated. That said, having had a chance to experience not just Eldar special characters but the plethora of named special characters that have been thrown against me in the past few months I've drawn the conclusion that the only Tau special character that I thought was decent is actually just as worthless as the other 2 special characters in the Tau codex. I mean, when compared to even some of the most mediocre special characters in other codexes Farsight is NOT worth taking. Allow me to explain....

His stat line compared to other special characters is actually terrible. The leadership 10 is standard for special characters of his stature however, weapon skill 5 and ballistic skill 4 is pathetic for his points cost. A standard Eldar Warlock with Enhance is actually the same weapon skill, ballist skill and intiative. That's just sad. Generally speaking Commander farsight will kill 2 MEQ's a turn in close combat. Again, VERY sad.... The overwhelming majority of special characters in other codexes actually hit this guy on 3's, wound him on 3's or 2's depending on your weapon load out, and a lot of them are instant death if he fails 1 of his 4+ invulnerable saves, 'cause got knows they'll have some kind of power weapon.

That said, his bodyguard unit is lackluster compared to the retinues that are used in other armies. Space Marine players like to hide their chapter masters and special characters units of thunder hammer terminators. Warbosses will hide in units of Nob Bikers. Farseers can hide in a unit of Warlocks, which are made all the more invincible when on jetbikes. On the other hand we get regular ass crisis suits. I mean, yes they're shas'vre but that doesn't matter. Actually it's worse. We're paying more points for battlesuits that aren't any better than regular battlesuits in an area that matters. Sure you can take hardwired wargear but then at that point each one of the bodyguards ends up being 10 points cheaper than a Shas'el once you've configured them similarly. Commander farsight and his unit fully loaded can easily range anywhere from 700 all the way up to 1200 points (if you're going to be absolutely ridiculous with their wargear and weapons) and will still get wiped off the table by any other HQ, or honestly even a couple of units of assault marines.

I was actually playing a game last week against a Tau player who I'd never met before and he brought a commander farsight unit. I charged my warlock council on jetbikes into him. I killed 2 of his battlesuits and a shield drone, he killed nothing (thanks to fortune) I won the combat by 5, he rolled a 6 for leadership and his whole unit fled off the table. They automatically got away because of the failsafe detonator but he still ran off the table edge. Sucks...

If all of this wasn't bad enough we're all aware of the penalties that commander farsight puts on your force organization. Some of the most useful units are limited to one pathfinders, hammerheads, broadsides and stealth suits while others are not available at all (kroot). No need to go into this much further. But it does keep you from ever making a truly competitive list using this character.

So you have a special character designed for close combat that cant kill anything in close combat supported by bodyguard unit that sucks in close combat and isn't particularly good at shooting that all in all is more expensive than any other deathstar unit (Thunder Hammer Terminators, Farseer and Warlocks on Jetbike, Nob Bikers, Thunderwolf Cavalry). I feel kinda dumb that it took me this long to figure it out, but while his storyline is kind of awesome, this character SUCKS! :sadnshocked:
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 18:40   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

Yep. The only thing good about Farsight is that he is good relative to other units in the Tau codex. And he lets you cram in more Crisis Suits. His own statline and rules are not impressive.

This is part of why I am so hard on the Tau codex. Playing Orks has really opened my ideas to how useful some units and characters are.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 18:57   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

At the time when they redid the Tau codex his stat line wasn't that bad. I've had him go toe to toe against grey knight terminators. But every codex after the recent tau dex the other hq units been getting all kinds of sick buffs.

Come to think about it. I liked 3rd edition Oshova cause he could give tau a permenate +1 int and ws which was good on some of your suits making them fight like marines. Also he was bs 5 if I recall. So IMO 4th edition actually mad him worse.

I hope they keep the character in the next upgrade. Maybe giving a unit fearless and 2d6 damage aganist vehicles wouldn't be bad. Kroots and vespids 0-1, no etherals and no other restrictions. Go back to giving your army the +1 int and ws bonus for same point cost. Also give some tau a close combat option.

I think he and his body guard should have preffered enemy as well.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 19:30   #4 (permalink)
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

One has to remember, That Tau is awesome without any powerweapons or any close combat weapon: They are the only race without such items. Now Farsight, here, Is the only Tau character that has the ability to negate Terminator saving throws in close combat. Much like how Asdrubael Vect from Dark Elder is the only vehicle with Armour 14 all around; In comparison with 11 front being the best normal vechicle. - Its an opposite of what already exists, in a specialist Army.

Now Tau isn't a specialist army; Infact, Its all of the same statistic lines, much like Space marines; but much lower and cheaper and focused in one type of combat; Adding to overal effectiveness if you keep them from Close combat. (If you want the same effectiveness out of your points from Marines, you need to use your high BS and WS.) But one of its strongest points is the enormous customization you can have. All suits can be wargeared to their own liking and uses. (Which, If I may be so bold, are best spend taking extra BS; To maximize that aspect of hitting and Taking Multitrackers to fire two weapons.) But the large amount of options are present.

Now The proper use of Farsight is to 'Suprise' your enemies. Much like how Tau players may decide to leave Broadsides at home after playing against Dark Elder for the seventh time; Knowing their Missile pods can easily pierce tanks and do the same damage, for a much cheaper set of points. However, If you then say 'hi' with an all 14 vehicle, They will shat brixx. - Now, Farsight, Is by no means a great Close Combat monster. And in an All shooty army, you certainly can't go rushing forward in a blind Blood Angle Escue Charge; Because you only have one guy. You need to keenly keep him back; Or deepstrike in the right spot. BUT! For an army without any powerweapons or other wargear/unit types that ignore armour saves in close combat, you suddenly have Farsight. - And I admit, The limitations are a bit harsh; They are harsh everywhere in the Tau codex. You /Must/ take firewarriors, you /must/ take a Shas'O or lesser equivalent. - But thats what you get, when playing an Army that has soo many wargear options on their Elite, HQ and even Sergeants.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 20:10   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

My main issue with farsight is, that besides the limitations he brings, is that you are putting 700+ points into a single unit. While yes they can do a crap ton of damage shooting things, the second they get caught in CC thats half if not more of your army that is now useless...and probably dead.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 21:20   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

My codex says 170, not 700. You don't have to take 7 Crisis suits. Infact, Its dumb, It only requires you to pay for more Target Locks. If you have the slots, put as many monats as possible.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 21:33   #7 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wraith
My codex says 170, not 700. You don't have to take 7 Crisis suits. Infact, Its dumb, It only requires you to pay for more Target Locks. If you have the slots, put as many monats as possible.
I was thinking the same thing. You get free bonding kinives and get preffered enemy against orcs. The preffered part is pretty useful since I had 2 broadsides with shielddrones do well against 30 orcs.

If you put 700 points in one unit like that it's your fault since it's not required to put all your eggs into one basket.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 21:59   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

Quote:
Originally Posted by Dark Wraith
My codex says 170, not 700. You don't have to take 7 Crisis suits. Infact, Its dumb, It only requires you to pay for more Target Locks. If you have the slots, put as many monats as possible.
First and foremost if you're taking commander farsight without his bodyguard then why are you taking him? A regular crisis suit commander will do more damage from shooting and can actually be more resilient when you give them shield drones, a shield generator, iridium armor and a stim injector. Commander farsight alone isn't good enough to consistently beat anyone but the most basic infantry in close combat. Regular space MEQ's with a power fist will be able to deal with him reasonably easily. On the charge he'll probably kill 2 and then he'll just end up getting killed by a power fist. At least the regular commander with shield drones can allocate some of those wounds to the shield drones that he can take. He'll also have another weapon in addition to his plasma rifle to hopefully kill more marines before they hit you.

I'm not sure about what point you're trying to make with the target locks and monats. Sure you can take individual crisis suits, but why would you do that? With true line of sight all of your monats are always a single krak missile or lascannon or bright lance shot from instant death. And in a farsight army if you dont load up on crisis suits then what the hell else are you supposed to take? You cant load up on hammerheads. You cant load up on kroot. You cant load up on pathfinders. I guess you could use all those extra points for more fire warriors but you cant support them all because you can only take 1 squad of pathfinders.

Which actually brings me to my next point. 1 squad of pathfinders is a huge HUGE disadvantage. Tau NEED pathfinders to increase our ballistic skill. Fire Warriors are complete waste at BS3. In my experience you need at least 6 marker light shots for every 2 teams of 10 - 12 fire warriors to make the fire warriors worth while. In a farsight army fire warriors are also the only scoring unit available. So in a farsight army you have to take other methods for using fire warriors that, in my opinion, are not particularly cost effective. Stealth Teams with Marker Drones actually perform quite well, but die reasonably easily and are INCREDIBLY expensive. Also, Skyray = Fail. We can argue up and down all day about this but from my experience the best a Skyray has ever done is kill a space marine librarian with a stray seeker missile. As an anti vehicle weapon it fails on many... many levels, but more importantly it offers very few marker light shots for it's point cost.

I'm just saying, I understand that the Tau codex was written during 4th edition however, I dont recall seeing limitations and drawbacks to taking special characters the way that it is in the current Tau Codex.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 22:24   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

This is an interesting question, but are the Tau the only army to have independent characters that restrict lists or have something like "The Price of Failure"?

I must admit, the two friends that I play are simply trucking me (Space Wolves and Nids, surprisingly enough), and I just feel like cover saves are too common and I am grabbing in the air to find something that works.

I don't want to be one of those "Our codex doesn't allow us to win" people, but are we getting to that point? Are we there?

I recently purchased a Space Marines codex, and I was shocked as to how versatile they are, and how many options they have, their abilities, and I have yet to see anyone who restricts what you can take like Farsight does, or anything close to a Price for Failure.

It is all very disheartening. I don't want to run to another army, but I am really starting to think that my tactics and strategy are no longer the limiting factor.
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Old 27 Apr 2010, 22:28   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: In hindsight, Commander Farsight Totally sucks....

To my knowledge Aun'Va is the only caracter that has such a draw back. Its like Shadowsun has the only special ability that can be destroyed by enemy weapons fire.
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