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are Kroot REALLY weak?
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 22:40   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default are Kroot REALLY weak?

ive been giving this a bit of thought lately (and if theres one thing im good at, its thinking on possibilities.. and solutions pertaining to them).. and ive begun to look at Kroot a different way...

ive heard and read all the arguments of the shaper being a waste of points, of the armor value being a waste of protection, etc... but heres a possibility that came up for me: What if everybody misunderstands the basic concepts of kroot? let me throw some retorts out to all the arguments, and youll see what i mean (hopefully... one of my weaknessess is getting whats in my head out clearly):

Shapers dont let you sweeping advance: in my games, after strictly enforcing the 'who takes wounds in combat' rules... i rarely ever win a round of combat with enemy units left still in base contact with mine... ive killed them all (at least the contacting row, maybe not the 2" others). with this result, i cant sweeping advance anyway since id need to have units in B2B contact... so, there ya go... moot problem.

6+ Armor doesnt stop 99% of weapons AP's: thats not what the armors for... the armors for what the orks have armor for.. armor saves in Close Combat. something is better than absolutely nothing, wouldnt you agree? its like handing EVERY enemy you ever face a power weapon. why would you?

Kroot Guns are a joke and waste Heavy Support slots: Strength 7 gun. lemme say again, Strength 7 gun. Range 48". lots and lots of Kroot Ablatives around them. now, ask yourself what does the Tau weapons line up lack?? a reliable Rhino /Killa kan Killer. wouldnt this gun do nicely? wouldnt 3?? sure, it COULD be str 8 to instant kill most Characters, but is that fair/balanced? it COULD be AP3 to kill power armor, but is that what its intended for-shooting at troops?


... anyways, i dont need counter-arguments, i admit i kinda overstated the examples above; to maybe open some eyes; to maybe push through some of the Dogma.

What im gonna try is a decked out Kroot Squad: 20 Kroot, Shaper, Armor save , 3 Krootox, 12 KrootHounds (2 Fast Attack), and have this big Wad-O-Kroot spread out over maximum Chorency, and see what opportunities arise. its only 1 slot from each field, and it leaves you Elite and HQ.... add to this some FoFs and broadsides and RailHeads, Stealth suits and Crisis decked out for specific roles, and youve got a lot, in my opinion
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 22:57   #2 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

Let me know how that works out for you.* * If you don't want counter-arguments, why are you bothering to post the question? ???
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 23:10   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

heh actually i didnt mean it quite THAT way.. i tried to say that i wish to avoid a 'youre stoopid no YOUR stoopid' runaway.. thats all... feel free by ALL means to reply.
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 23:31   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

I've tried the pile'o kroot tactic, its kinda large and unwieldy, and more than a little frustrating when they run away. But, I am the first to admit everyone plays differently and experimentation is good.

Let us know how it works out.

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Old 21 Jul 2005, 00:11   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

well here were i go theres a gw person who colects nothin but kroot and a little bit of tau like 1 hammer head ,or a pack of firewarriors etc and he owns trust me i wacthed him play and oh ya he doesnt just sent them in like a suicde misson he acally backs em up with the tau and thats propaly y hes so good every one things that if thell kill hes koot in one turn thell win but !!!bag !!! he backs em up your like wtf.....sh!t im screwed
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Old 21 Jul 2005, 00:32   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

From my experience with the oversized chickens is that they're only useful at shooting. Here is my arguement why.

Kroot have Initiative 3. You can't really charge with them as many will die. Of course you can argue that you have 20 Kroots, big deal if some die. However, whatever you're charging probably is competent in close combat since an opponent would only put something in charge range of your Kroots if he know what he was doing. He will out wound you and Kroot will need to take a morale test. With such low Leadership and Initiative you can get sweeping advanced.

Hey but what when the Kroot get charged in cover? They have Initiative 10! A competent opponent will not be stupid and charge 20 Kroot when they will attack first. He will charge with guys that have grenades that negate being assaulted in cover.

This leaves shooting. 20 shots at BS3 and STR4 is not that bad. You might get lucky and be in 12" rapid fire range. 40 shots!
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Old 21 Jul 2005, 00:35   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

The Kroot gun has a fair amount of power available to it, but the problem that arises is that you can't do what you like to most - infiltrate and shoot, ironing out the move and shoot issues of the Kroot Gun. *One issue I have with your analysis is that you say we lack a Rhino/Kan buster - Doesn't the Missile Pod, a "Strictly Better" version of the Kroot Gun fit that role?

Note to mattz - The GW player who uses a Kroot heavy list sounds like something worth hearing about, but I doubt I'm the only one with trouble understanding... if you could please use proper grammar and not swear it would be interesting to hear about this Krooty list.

My take on the Kroot in general - no they are not weak, I use them in every army I can from Eldar to Guard. *They come with the save built in, but I would probably find myself taking it even if it was optional - sixes can save you a few guys, no matter how few... and when your evicerator-toting Shaper gets in close....

Quote:
You might get lucky and be in 12" rapid fire range. 40 shots!
The de facto best ploy with Kroot is to infiltrate them more than 6" from the edge of terrain but less than 12" from where an enemy realy wants to be - they risk being bogged in cover to charge them, and when those bolter-toting (well, almost) Kroot start blasting away... unless of course you have my luck (rapid fired with 23 shots and hit with all of five).
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Old 21 Jul 2005, 00:56   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

One thing I have heard about is using kroot hounds to get your full attacks off. It attacks simultaneously with I4 units, and then you take the casualties out of the hounds. This lets you get your full attacks for your squad off while only losing some 6 pt units. (I may be off about something here. Have been playing around with an AC recently, so I am somewhat rusty with the assault rules).
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Old 21 Jul 2005, 06:35   #9 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

I use 2 units of 10 kroot. They are excellent shooters, get a nice free save, and strike first or simultaneously when charged. But that can all be replaced if I got fire warriors or stealths instead. I only use kroot because they are cheap scoring units and they push back infiltators. For those two reasons, kroot are worth it.
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Old 21 Jul 2005, 06:41   #10 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: are Kroot REALLY weak?

You use no FW? You do know that they are 1+ right?
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