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pathfinders as heavy weapon squad
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 13:30   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

I've been discussing this this with a few player at my local GW and was wondering what everybody else thought?

as a tau player, I love to use pathfinders and their deadly rail rifle, but they are always the first one to be axed when i draw a less than 1000pts list.

i have been playing with the idea that perhaps i could use the pathfinders as normal scouts with a slight variation instead of mounted in a fish. ie keep all the same cost, no fish, but instead become heavy, a bit like a devastator squad, only with rail rifle and markerlights.

I know that they are not normal scouts, because it is not supported by the fluff. They don't work their way foward days in advance like other scout units, they just drive in ahead of the rest of the tau army. which is shown by giving them a free move at the start of the game, which is why I wouldn’t give them the infiltrate rule and a 3D6 difficult terrain roll.

So they would be classed as heavy, not really scouts.

I was wondering whether this could become a good house rule, allowing tau players to bring pathfinders with rail rifle in low point games and whether other players would enjoy being shot down by hidden rail rifles :-)
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 13:50   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

If they were heavy, their use would be as low as the Krootox. Make them troops and infiltrating and they will flourish. Make Pathfinders heavy and you'll have to make a Space Marine squad with a Missile Launcher heavy.

And BTW, why would you use such an expensive unit in a 1000 point army?
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 14:12   #3 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

the problem I was told by other people, is that if you make them as normal scouts, ie with infiltrate and a 3D6 difficult terrain, then they might flourish to well, as you would have a cheap unit that infiltrate, and blast you with an AP3 S6 weapon that can shoot at 36".

i would prefer to see them as true scout in the terms of Space marines scouts, but most other players I talked to all agreed that it might be a bit too much, and that by making them normal troops, or heavy weapon squad would balance the frightening possibility of 3 rail rifle and 3 markerlights for 100pts! that can infiltrate!
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 14:35   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

Maybe make them 14 or 15 points instead of 12. And I also think they should have a look design. Make them look less like fire warriors and more like snipers. That would make them look cooler and more suitable for their niche.
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 14:38   #5 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

If you want to do this then how about an Elite choice.

The Idea seems ok and I'm sure most players wouldn't have much objection to you using it. I'd also make the Rail-Rifles take the twin-linked upgrade (just to make the points cost of the squad higher, represent their Elite nature and to add some risk to using the unit).

I'd also keep that at 0-1.
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 14:43   #6 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

Elites? Ehh. That would also limit their use. Crisis and Stealth battlesuits are better than pathfinders as elites. As Fast Attack, there aren't many worthwhile things to take, so people take a Pathfinder squad and a Drone squadron (maybe Kroot Hounds too). As troops, you'd have to sacrifice FW and kroot, but it would fit their nature as Shas'las. If you made them elites, you'd have to make them all Shas'uis and maybe use battlesuits. Actually, that isn't a bad idea.
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 15:01   #7 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

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Originally Posted by Arguleon-veq
If you want to do this then how about an Elite choice.

The Idea seems ok and I'm sure most players wouldn't have much objection to you using it. I'd also make the Rail-Rifles take the twin-linked upgrade (just to make the points cost of the squad higher, represent their Elite nature and to add some risk to using the unit).

I'd also keep that at 0-1.
i agree it would have to be 0-1, but again the idea would be to keep the cost of the unit down at all cost, therefore using the twin-linked upgrades would make the unit too costly. it is unfortunate that as an elite it would clash with the suits and the stealth.
But we cant use them as fast attack because they aren't really fast anymore, perhaps they could be core with 0-1 restriction, and they must be fielded alongside a unit of FW (not actually alongside, but you must have a FW unit in the list).

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Old 20 Jul 2005, 15:05   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

SM Scouts and Cadian Snipers (I think) are troops. Since Pathfinders are the "scouts" and "snipers" of the Tau, they should be troops. Trash the Devilfish need (but make it an option), make them 15 points, make them infiltrating, and make them 0-2 (2 Pathfinder squads working off of each other is actually a good idea for the Rail Rifles).
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 15:16   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

I think they should be at least a reasonably high points cost as you are getting 'Infiltrate' for free and taking a huge chunk of points away because they don't need the Fish. It would be a very useful unit in a Tau army and because of this you don't want them too cheap or it could become unbalanced. Hence the artificial raising of cost with the required twin-linked upgrade.

About the clash in the Elites section, clashed happen. People have to make choices about what they want. In an Eldar army you have many Aspects to choose from in the Elites section.

Plus I know that many Tau players are not happy with XV8 Suits so this could fill the gap for them in the Elite section (those that do like XV8 often don't like XV15). You would have two Elite options left anyway with which you could still pick XV8's and XV15's.

Still an the whole I like the idea, many people just ask if they can take their Pathfinders without the Fish and let the Infiltrate anyway so there would be people that would want to use this.

'SM Scouts and Cadian Snipers'

Cadian Snipers? I've never heard of such a unit. Anyway..........you can't just look at other lists, it doesn't work like that plus SM Scouts are an official playtested unit. As this is a House Rule people may have problems with letting you use it therefore it is best to limit them in some way so your opponent will accept them as fair etc.

Plus if we do look at other list; Ork infiltrators (Commandos) are Elite, Nids are Elite and HQ (Lictor sort of Infiltrates in a way, Stealers with Broodlord are the HQ), Guard infiltrating units are Elite (Stormtroopers and Vets), Necrons are Elite (Flayed Ones).

With the SM example, Scouts are worse than normal Marines hence the Troop status but Marine Vets (who can Infiltrate if you choose) are also Elites.
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 15:40   #10 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: pathfinders as heavy weapon squad

I essentially use my Pathfinders as a heavy weapons squad now. I usually deploy them at the max deployment distance on the side of the board with the best firing lanes. Before the first turn I run them up the board edge, and deploy them right at the edge of their 12" movement (usually about halfway up the table). The rest of my army crowds the opposite side, so if the enemy wants to take out a 48-72-points squad (I only run 4-6 pathfinders), they're going to weaken the bull-rush on the rest of my army.

First turn, I'm getting good choices at shots with my markerlights and rail rifles, and the devilfish scuttles up the side of the table into the enemy's deployment zone, picking on isolated artillery, vehicle behinds or other nuisances. Admittedly the unit and fish has never survived the game, but usually after taking out their points value or more. However, because they are so up the battlefield, they often fall back but not off of the table—I've ended two games with a lone Pathfinder surviving—only half victory points.

I'm sure I could make more use out of them if I didn't abandon them, but I like having a thorn in the enemy's side, making him constantly think about something other than my main force.
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