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Fish of Fury - CRAP
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 13:53   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
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Default Fish of Fury - CRAP

Ok I have a small problem.

I am no stranger to 40k. I have played Necrons, Thousand Sons, Deathguard, Tyranids, and now my latest army.. Tau.. because they look really neat. And to be fair they look really hard to win with. I wanted a challenging army to work on and paint. Maybe work for some awards at the Grand Tournies and RTTs

Well.. I played it last week for about the 3rd time. And I faced a rhino rushing space wolves army.. now before you go and say that’s an easy army to beat.. he used the rhinos as mobile cover.. and was no fool. He ran forward.. smoked.. only gave up about a 4th of my army to be able to shoot at each one using terrain. I was only glancing and he would get out 2 inches on his next turn.. walk 6.. charge 6.. or walk 6.. rapid fire.. while using terrain to limit his casualties and retaliation.

In short.. he was a good player..

Well.. I absolutely man handled him. Because when he got close I took 3 hammerheads and made a wall.. with a devilfish.. and just had my firewarriors walk around behind the wall of you cant kill me.. . while hugging the trees for coversaves. After one turn of this.. I realized.. there was nothing he could do about this. The tanks are almost impossible to kill and the next turn I will just move six inches and rotate the tanks to keep them glancing..

I then realized that using terrain I could limit my casualties and my enemies line of sight and basically gank this guy all game long.. and then I looked at it and said to myself.. “This is fricken lame…”

The tactic that so many Tau players use is lame.. its not fun at ALL to play against.. and if I walk into Chicago sporting this tactic.. I am going to get JACK for soft scores..
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 14:12   #2 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

That is why you SHOOT at the enemy. Skimmers don't block LOS, and 24 rapid-fired Pulse Rifle shots from a FW squad (48 shots with 2) and having no ability to assault them would make your opponent tremble.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 14:29   #3 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

I belevie he was commenting on the cheapness of FoF, not it's lack of use.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 14:54   #4 (permalink)
Shas'El
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

all of your previous armies were about HTH, not shooting. Tau are about shooting. In a world where ranges are modified in order to make the game playable, shooting is tougher. If we were talking realistic ranges, the HH would be shooting at armor 50 meters away, not six feet away. In such a world, the Tau would rule supreme. However, this is a game and uses reduced scale so that we can enjoy ourselves with reasonable comfort. To play a shooting army thus means moving in order to shoot, not moving in order to fight. If you find a way to keep your warriors shooting, then this is a good thing. Yes it would suck for the other guy, but so does having terminators appear next to your FW teams.

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Old 18 Jul 2005, 15:04   #5 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

I totally agree. I think you'll understand just how cheap the FoF is when your teams are whiped out by 3 guardsmen in CC.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 15:11   #6 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

There was recently another similar topic started here:

http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=8189.0


Many good points were raised on both sides. In particular, I'd refer to to ShasEl_Tael's reply on page 3.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 15:32   #7 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

Fish of Fury is cheap. *Okay, yeah, I can see that. *JSJ is cheap. *Yep, I can see that, too. *Having weapons on a Crisis Suit that can allow them to do things like punch the side armor of a Predator and destroy it while executing JSJ maneuvers is... *Well, let me just quote my friends: *"I don't have anything that can do that."

On the other hand, the best I can do off a single deepstrike is 18 shots that don't penetrate his armor if I use a Stealth team. *Maybe, with Multitrackers and the right armament, 9 shots that ignore his armor but only land on a 4+. *Or 12 shots, 6 of which he can save against, that again only land on a 4+. *I'm sure there's someone else out there who's had the unpleasant experience of watching Terms teleport in behind their lines and open up with autocannons, stormbolters, and various other assorted pieces of nastiness. *And 24 pulse rifle shots into said group of Terms is going to result in... not a lot of deaths if we're playing the probabilities. *Then there's the weapons with the better AP scores. *SMurfs, Chaos SMurfs, and I believe IG can all get at least one into their normal squads, more into special squads like Devastators. *This allows them to spread the ability to inflict pain out over a lot of units. *Now to the Tau. *All of our weapons that have the ability to do things like instakill something because of AP or high strength are available on exactly two units. *The HH and the Crisis. *And only the main weapon on the HH gets the job done. *It's secondary weapon systems aren't going to do it. *The Crisis has 2 weapons that don't out of the 4 available for selection, and the two that do work well require you to get dangerously close to get the best performance.

I'm not going to go into assault all that much but I'll bet before playing Tau you never really worried all that much about tying your commander down in assault. *Why? *Because I've seen the chapter master stats my buddy has and it's ridiculous to think about what that can do to my guys... what I've seen it do to my guys. *1 model being able to completely obliterate an entire squad of FWs over the course of 2 assault phases (can't do it in 1, not quite enough attacks) and I might, just might, manage to actually hand him a wound... that he'll probably save against.

So yeah, we're cheap. *We're cheesy. *Fighting against us is like fighting against anything else in this game. *You win or you lose.

Face it. *You go with what works. *For the Tau, that's mobility combined with a rather startling volume of firepower. *Because if you manage to corner us, tie us down, and get to blade range, then it's all over but the screaming. *And that is probably going to be mercifully brief. *Your opponent can shoot through the skimmers as someone else already mentioned. *They don't block line of fire, just line of assault. *Sure, it's not his strength, but that's the oldest lesson in warfare. *You play to your strengths and fight your battles. *This coincides nicely with the Tau fluff. *As a race we don't give a rat's hindquarters about the terrain. *If the terrain favors your guy, allowing him to dictate the manner of the battle, then they're perfectly willing to fall back, take advantage of things like the bottleneck you described and turn the battle into their kind of fight.

Last note: *I find it kind of interesting that we're described as a shooting army but we only hit anything about 50% of the time and then can wound easier... where as other races, like the Eldar, hit easier and have a harder time wounding. *<shrugs> *Just some food for thought.

/rant off

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Old 18 Jul 2005, 15:40   #8 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

If your vehicles are in a line, they are much more vulnerable to damage. Also, some ways to defeat FoF:
  • Have jump troops jump over vehicles
  • Assault the vehicles. How many SM units don't have at least one model that can damage a Devilfish or Hammerhead?
  • Tank Shock. A predator or land raider can make your devilfish give way, leaving a big hole in your forces.
  • Shoot back. Not neccessarily the most effective solution, but heavy bolters and flamers are AP4, with enough shots to make your FW run away.
  • Flank. Fast-moving, deep-striking, or infiltrating units can get around the firing line and cause major havoc.

FoF seems cheap because Tau are the only army that can make real use out of it. However, so long as you don't break the rules of sci-fi reality, any tactic isn't truly cheap. A skimmer hovering 3-4 feet above ground would prevent an assault but allow troops to drop down and shoot beneath it.

I personally feel that a 14-point model that hits in CC and shooting on a 3+, wounds in both on a 3+, saves on a 3+, usually has 3+ attacks on the charge and is nearly fearless is pretty cheap as well; to each his own.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 16:05   #9 (permalink)
Kroot Shaper
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

I think this issue points directly to the fact that the tau are a very win/loose army. By that I mean that yes we are capable of dealing out more firepower than any self-respecting commander would like to have his army exposed to, but by the same token if 1 or 2 enemy units find there way into our lines. We're toast. In that sense the Tau can be very deceptive, because you're either winning or you're loosing. You can be completely winning but still be taking upwards of 6 marines in casualties a turn if by the 4th turn you're in position for an assault. That means that the Tau need to be unrepenting in their carnage-dishing-out and the opponent needs to be unrepenting in realizing that victory is probably closer than it might appear.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 16:14   #10 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
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Default Re: Fish of Fury - c**p

you need to make firing lanes with small sqaud of fire warrors and kroot and be about 8 inch apart so he cant sweep in to another unit if get get to one makes sure the kroot are ahead of the FW and let the SW come to them focuse fire and take some crisis with twin link plasma to back them up when the wloves get to close
also some twin link missle pods to take out the rhinos fast so he has to walk or hug it for cover 3 ion should wipe out them nasty SW or even take down a rhino key work on one sqaud when it wiped out turn to the next
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