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1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 04:00   #1 (permalink)
Kroot Warrior
 
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Default 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

I'm just startin out with a tau army and my bro is just startin his new Daemonhunters. Needless to say there will be many battles ensuing in my house and i was wondering if you guys could make some suggestions on how to set up a 1000 pt Deamonhunter slaying army.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 08:26   #2 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend107
I'm just startin out with a tau army and my bro is just startin his new Daemonhunters. Needless to say there will be many battles ensuing in my house and i was wondering if you guys could make some suggestions on how to set up a 1000 pt Deamonhunter slaying army.
Yeah make sure you dont use chaos. I would go for a lot of Ranged Heavy fire power. Like..........TAU hooray
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 10:17   #3 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Is he using Grey Knights? If he does thats going to 2 be taugh for u. The have that shrouded ability that makes u rol 3d6 x3 to spot them. Max range is 54 inches so no 6 ft death. And no black sun filter won't work. Shrouded is a psychic chants from the knights and using night vision won't help you. It will still confuse ur guys because its pyschic. If he uses all grey knights, use an ion head. That will get rid of his 3+ save. At that low of points, he won't use a land raider, only a single dearnaught. Grey knights can only use the best so the only tank they can use is the land raider. Heavy support is where u will beat him. Watch out for his knights, they all have storm bolters and a close combat weapon. All ranks of Grey knights get a +2 strength in close combat so 6 stregnth they will have. Also the higher rank, their weapons becomes a power weapon and then the Grand Master has that Force Weapon. His Justicars or team leaders will have a power weapon. They all have WS 5 and be able to move and shoot. Watch out for assaults. Grey Knight are one of the best when it comes to assaults, trust me i know, i also play a grey knight army. Also watch out for psybolts. If ur friend uses those, that gives all bolt weapons AP4 so kiss ur fire warriors good bye. Now if he is using a inquisitor with inducted units from space marines or imperial gurad, then its eazier. Trust face them like u would with a normal space marine or imperial guard army. Try to be on the move and gang up on stranded or weaken units and u'll pwn him.
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 11:06   #4 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend107
I'm just startin out with a tau army and my bro is just startin his new Daemonhunters. Needless to say there will be many battles ensuing in my house and i was wondering if you guys could make some suggestions on how to set up a 1000 pt Deamonhunter slaying army.
You should have a smooth ride, assuming you have a good variety of models available for play.

Let's give you a little run down of what it means to play Grey Knights:
  • Low amount of Anti-armor weaponry
  • No basic transports
  • Low model counts (each one is very expensive)
  • Everything dies just as easily as the normal marine counterpart for twice the price
  • Shrouding is generally ineffective
  • Great in combat
  • Packed full of Deep Strike ability
  • Ability to field an Assassin (such as the Callidus)
  • The only armor you probably will see is a Land Raider or Dreadnought
  • Packs the normal allotment of purgation: Incinerators (similar: Heavy Flamer); Psycannons (similar: Assault Cannons); Stormbolters

As a Tau player, you already have distinct advantages against a Grey Knight army: you're faster, you have powerful shooting weapons and you outnumber him greatly. The thing is, Grey Knights seem impressive, but they're just marines in the end. They have the same toughness and armor saves and all that goodness, but they simply beat you down in combat much harder than a marine does. Grey Knights, like Tau, don't have the ability to field missile launchers and plasma and all that in their basic troop squads of Grey Knights, so you don't have to cower in cover unless there's just a lot of psycannons out there. Incinerators and Psycannons are the only upgraded weapons you'll find in their squads, other than a stormbolter. The psycannons are very dangerous, because they can fire while on the move and that even a normal trooper can carry them. They're very strong and ignore invulnerable saves, so watch your commanders and the like (also, they can glance your Devilfish). The incinerator is bad news up close, but otherwise, totally ineffective if it cannot place a template over a Tau body, so keep your distance.

You're probably already aware of the more common, non-Daemonhunter specific units, such as the Storm Troopers, Inducted Allies (Guard and Space Marines) as well as the possibility of the Witch Hunters - if not, give us a shout about them too.

For more detailed information about each unit available to the Daemonhunters, feel free to check our Daemonhunter Know Thy Self.

Speed:

Grey Knights are slow - they don't have basic transports, so instead they deep strike into play most of the time, or they hitch a ride in a very expensive land raider. This means everything is on foot, moving at the normal 6 inch speed, unless they're deep striking. If units deep strike, it may seem scary, but it is a blessing in disguise for you because it's only a few squads and they will show up randomly. This makes it very easy to focus fire and eliminate each squad as they arrive. Kroot are extremely valuable in this instance, as they're cheap but their rapidfire is highly effective en mass against the power armor. Against Terminators, simply hit them with plasma, or hit them with all of your pulse weaponry available, but in 1,000 points, you shouldn't see too many Terminators (but I would wager he will field them, 5 of them including his hero). If his army is totally on foot and not teleporting, the game will be insanely easy for your Tau, as they are just bowling pins for your weapons that cannot fire adequately in return.

For more information reguarding common Grey Knight configurations, check out Common Grey Knight Troop Configurations and Usage.

The other possibilities, is that he may field Inquisitorial Storm Troopers as troop selections, which are easy for Tau to destroy as well (easier than Grey Knights) but the difference is that these troops may field transports, so this will be a rare occurance most likely, but it is something to watch for - should he field rhinos full of storm troopers, simply hit them with missile pods and the problem will be solved. Beware storm troopers in close range though, as they pack plasma, meltas and flamers. Do not underestimate them at close ranger however, and deny their mobility. If they're slower than you: you win.

Otherwise, there is the possibility of Induction, in which case you may see normal Space Marines, or you may see inducted imperial Guard infantry platoons or armored fist squads - all of which are easily destroyed by Tau weaponry, but they are dangerous due to the ability to field anti-tank weapons, which the Grey Knights lack most. All of your weaopns beat down every Guard unit they can take, however the Space Marines are not so easy to crush - I will assume you already know and understand the fight against the Space Marines, and will leave it suffice to say that killing a Grey Knight and a Space Marine are very similar: point and shoot, many times, until he fails that armor save. If that fails, deny his armor save with low ap.

Anti-tank in the Grey Knights:

Their anti-tank weaponry solely exist as such:
  • Land Raider's Lasagnas
  • Dreadnought's Lascannons/Multi-melta/Missile Launcher
  • Meltabombs on single characters
  • Inducted Allies (Missile Launchers, Lascannons); Storm Troopers (Meltaguns)

As you can see, it's lacking. Now, that's not to say that a creative player cannot deep strike behind you and glance your tanks with psycannons or even plain stormbolters, but these are the real "anti-tank" weapons listed above, which can fire from range and hit your front armors with chances of bringing down a vehicle. Quite simply, you will not see very much of this aspect due to just how extremely expensive it is for him to field these vehicles (the meltabombs are cheap of course, but require base contact). The Land Raider and the Dreadnought require that he fields a Grey Knight Hero, which will already eat up 10% of his points at the 1,000 point level (generally). So he will be dedicating half of his army to that bit of armor if he does field these things. That leaves his troops extremely deficient and you should have no problem at all crushing him. Should he forego the anti-tank weaponry and just field infantry and terminators, then you're all set for the fight, just beware the deep strike and stay out of combat.

As for the allies and storm troopers, they're going to be the key factor in your stradegy most likely, if they're fielded. The allied marines or imperial guard, will allow the Daemonhunter player to field long range anti-tank weapons, which will make up for his lack if he takes Grey Knights more often. This could be a problem, but it shouldn't pose too much to you because in 1,000 points, it's difficult to amass those allies while maintaining the parent list. If inducted allies are taken, the few lascannons will be gaurded merely by many warm little bodies, which are all very easy to destroy with pulse fire. The Storm troopers anti-tank abilities are only in the 12 inch range with melta weapons, so it shouldn't even cause you concern unless they're mounted in rhinos or better.

Making an advantage out of his disadvantage:

So if you want to make more advantage out of the advantages you have, and make his disadvantages even worse, take Devilfish. The Hammerhead with an Ion Cannon and Burst Cannons will totally wrack a squad of Grey Knights within 36 of you. The Hammerheads are simply very dominating as a heavy support, with their capability to output fire as well as be resilient; it's obvious this choice will help you destroy the Grey Knights. And in 1,000 points, you may only be facing 15~20 models at best, so you can imagine just how rough they will have it. Your Devilfish is the weapon of choice however, because they have little that can stop it, it can be fielded within your troops, it carries said troops which score points, and said troops can disembark and focus fire upon grey knight troopers in order to eliminate them. The Devilfish is simply your work horse here. This transport is durable and it keeps your precious infantry away from close combat, where his Strength 6 weapons don't beat you into goo. If you have Devilfish, I'd recommend you use them (for example 8 Fire Warriors in a Devilfish with a multi-tracker and targeting array and decoy launchers is a grey knight death wagon, take two of them in 1,000 points and you can eliminate half his army with just the transports).

Tricks up their Sleeves:

Grey Knights have a few tricks in terms of Psychic powers and extra units. The Psychic powers should pose you zero threat, but a well placed Holocaust will wreck your infantry very easily when they're up close or in combat with you. So avoid combat and avoid the 6 inch margin between you and the shiney foe. That's the obvious bit of advice I'm sure. However, beware if he fields an Inquisitor, as he probably has done so for access to an Assassin. If you haven't already faced the Callidus, you will not enjoy her - she is a raw Tau killer. The Callidus is perfect for eliminating our precious battle suits or even mauling key infantry squads. She shows up in reserves, and is placed wherever he wants and can totally attack you right away. She has a template attack that will be very nasty against you if fielded. For more information on assassins and their capabilities, I'd recommend you browse Officio Assassinorum Operatives over at the Inquisition boards.

The other tricks are merely the inducted allies you may find on the board, as the Inquisition may call upon many forces within the ranks of the Space Marines or Imperial Guard, so be prepared for those units as well (they're not Daemonhunters, but they can be fielded in the army at times). This is a common manner for a Daemonhunter player to field a Leman Russ battle tank or Space Marine assault troops or Predators. Mainly, the Imperial Guard are fielded in order to gain access to cheap and plentiful heavy weapons.

Beware the mass chimeras that can be fielded via the Inquisitorial factions of the Daemonhunters combined with the inducted imperial guard. They can pose quite a problem with massed heavy bolters against a non-mounted Tau army. Chimeras should be considered a priority target in that situation and eliminated as soon as possible; however if mounted, feel free to ignore them as they cannot touch your skimmers for the most part.

Also, beware massed up rhinos as he may be able to hide a combat marine squad in there, without explaining the contents of each rhino - that can spell disaster if something like that breaks into your lines. In this situation, it's very helpful to be inside a Devilfish as you cannot be assaulted there. The other option is simply to destroy every single rhino and find out for yourself what's inside and you don't have to try to be clever, take out the lead vehicles and slow them all down and kill anything that comes out of them.

What would a 1,000 point list look like that encompassed all of this?

HQ - Commander Shas'el; Plasma Rifle; Missile Pod; Multi-tracker (or any variation of your liking)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Shas'ui; Plasma Rifle; Missile Pod; Multi-tracker (or any variation of your liking)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Shas'ui; Plasma Rifle; Missile Pod; Multi-tracker (or any variation of your liking)
Elite - XV8 Crisis Shas'ui; Plasma Rifle; Missile Pod; Multi-tracker (or any variation of your liking)
Troop - Fire Warriors x 8; Devilfish; Multi-tracker; Targeting Array; Decoy launchers
Troop - Fire Warriors x 8; Devilfish; Multi-tracker; Targeting Array; Decoy launchers
Troop - Kroot x 12
Troop - Kroot x 12
Heavy - Hammerhead; Railgun; Smart Missile System; Multi-tracker; Decoy Launchers; Target Locks

It looks like a standard list, but it's how you employ it on the battle field that makes the difference. You have three skimmers which are the offensive workhorse of the army towards the enemy. The XV8 and Kroot are there to hold positions and to respond to deep striking threats. Your mobility will be the key to success, as even humble amounts of fire power will penetrate your lines. The single Railgun is there in case he fields a Land Raider, however if you know that he will not field such a piece of armor, then I would highly recommend the Ion Cannon in place if possible. The remaining points can always be spent on Fire Warriors or Kroot for more bodies on the board.

It would probably be helpful if you posted which models you have available to fight him with - otherwise, some of this advise may have been in vein. None the less, good luck to you and send him back to Titan.

Cheers!
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Old 18 Jul 2005, 19:05   #5 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Reverand - You found the right guy for the job. Not only does Malveaux play Tau and Demonhunters, he's also a very strong player. You should be waxing those knights in no time.
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Old 19 Jul 2005, 05:09   #6 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Thanks guys, especialy MalVeauX, for all the great advice. I was thinking of using 3 crisis, 2 squads of fw, a hammerhead, a broadside, and a stealth team.
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Old 19 Jul 2005, 11:05   #7 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Quote:
Originally Posted by Reverend107
Thanks guys, especialy MalVeauX, for all the great advice. I was thinking of using 3 crisis, 2 squads of fw, a hammerhead, a broadside, and a stealth team.
Reverend:

Do you know specifically which units your Daemonhunter opponent uses? It would help greatly.

It's actually not a good fight for the XV15's against Grey Knights, due to the Storm Bolters; their movement and range puts them in a very good position to hit your suits pretty often. If you dance the stealthsuits near Grey Knights, at the 18~24 inch marks, it works against rapid-fire marines, because if they move, they only have 18 inches total (6" move + 12" shots) and get two of them a piece, but storm bolters will be able to get up to 30 inches (6" move + 24" shots) and they still get 2 shots a piece, so it's more dangerous because their average spotting distance will be less, and they can still reach pretty far. Dancing works well on marines, but it's not a good idea against Grey Knights. If you use your XV15's against their infantry, make sure they're backed up by Fire Warriors, or Kroot or something. Don't let them be alone with Grey Knights or you'll lose them quickly (and they're too expensive to lose so quickly!).

If you know he is going to take a Land Raider, or any form of tank, then the XV88 Broadside will be very helpful. However, if not, he may not be very helpful at all. In the end, I think if you do take an XV88, I would suggest the plasma rifle upgrade on him, just for deep strike response, as he could quickly burn off 2 grey knights with luck. If you take the XV88, this will free your Hammerhead's railgun, allowing you the Ion Cannon for cheaper. The Ion Cannon removes the luck factor from armor saves against small units of expensive Grey Knights, meaning in a single shooting round, you'll probably rip a squad to shreads with just two units.

How will you equip your Crisis Suits? You want to keep them distant, but if you're going to be in their face, twin-linked plasma will be your best friend. Otherwise, missile pods and burst cannons are also a great combination for pure dakka on the move.

The Fire Warriors, I assume will not be mounted, so you've got two choices. You can keep them in cover and hope to take the 30 inch shooting range, or you can move around and try to get into rapidfire range. Either way, prepare to take heavy loses on your fire warriors, unless you're lucky and get him in range of all your fire warriors at the same time and are lucky enough to burn him off the board each time. The fire warriors can inflict nasty casualties on his squads, but if his squads get a chance to shoot you with storm bolters, you will take some hurt. If he has psycannons or incinerators, he will literally put holes in your lines too. If you have a choice between 12 shots at 30 inches, or 2 shots at 12 inches, I would almost always recommend the close shots. It may seem like suicide, but his squad sizes are small, so if you hit him hard enough at once, you can put him low enough to allow another squad (like the hammerhead or XV15's or XV8's) to finish them off, which will keep you out of assault. Trying to kill power armor from 30 inches works, but it takes a very long time, and usually you end up with plenty of casualties unless your opponent is just silly and chances battle suits the whole game.

Anyhow - the more we know about your opponent's army (because it can be very variable!) and your own model access will help greatly

Cheers!
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Old 20 Jul 2005, 21:51   #8 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Im not really sure what exact set up he is going to use, but im positive it will involve at least one reg marine squad along with a squad of GK termies and a reg squad of GK. Im also pretty sure he'll use an assassin, probably a callidus . he doesnt have a tank, at least not that i know of, so we can rule that out. I was going to set up my crisis suits with plasma, missle pods, and multilocks.
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Old 21 Jul 2005, 03:08   #9 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

Reverend:

Oh that nasty Callidus. That means he has an Inquisitor in there somewhere. Just a note, he cannot mix "Space Marines" with the Grey Knights (at all) if he's playing as Daemon Hunters. There's specific rules stating he cannot do that (Grey Knights don't like competition ). So keep an eye that he's not fielding an illegal army there.

Callidus assassins are great at locking down your Battle Suits, so don't rely on them too much. Instead, focus on S5 weaponry in mass - it will take care of everything he has, so long as he doesn't field a Land Raider.

Fire Knife will work fine, but again, due to the Callidus, you may find yourself not using the suits very often.

Cheers!
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Old 28 Sep 2006, 21:40   #10 (permalink)
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Default Re: 1000 pt. army vs. Daemonhunters

I hate thread necro, and I've done it two time before by accident, but now it's on purpose.

Reverend, in adding up what he has at the beginning, you may find his army on the field is lacking 70 points. It means he's taken an orbital strike. These things, if they work, will kill a squad a turn. Only question is, which army's squad will it kill. It is very random, but it is very lethal to anything it hits. He has to place it before deployment over a terrain piece, but doesn't have to tell you, so make him write it down. It will probably be in the middle of the board. Just watch out for it, because it can be lethal, and I thought I'd just add that, just in case.

and again, sorry for the Necro. If you want mods, lock it. Just needed to add that :-[
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