Tau Empire Codex 2013 | Army Builder Program
Dark Angels Codex 2013
Chaos Daemons Codex 2013
Chaos Space Marines Codex 2012

Warhammer 40k Forum Tau Online

 

Warhammer 40K Forum

What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?
Closed Thread
Old 10 Jul 2005, 11:37   #1 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,260
Default What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

At a big game yesterday ,one of the players insisted that seeker missiles aren't "improved" by markerlights, and therefor do not ignore cover. It seems like they implicitly benefit from the light and it stands to reason they ignore cover saves.

Has there been any official word?
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
Join the arena, and succumb to the eternal lust!
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=9054.0
ShadowDeth is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 12:11   #2 (permalink)
Shas'Saal
 
Join Date: Nov 2004
Posts: 169
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

Seeker missles benefit from marker ligts in the exact same way as all other weapons. 2+ to hit, no cover save. THe player you were playing is an idiot and should be knocked out. If he keeps on insisting just show him the codex and the chapter approved from the GW website and then break a squad of his models or a tank. Thats what i do.
__________________
One death is a tragedy, one million deaths is a statistic
Kesalin is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 12:14   #3 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posts: 5,827
Send a message via AIM to Farseer_Del Send a message via MSN to Farseer_Del Send a message via Yahoo to Farseer_Del
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesalin
Seeker missles benefit from marker ligts in the exact same way as all other weapons. 2+ to hit, no cover save. THe player you were playing is an idiot and should be knocked out. If he keeps on insisting just show him the codex and the chapter approved from the GW website and then break a squad of his models or a tank. Thats what i do.
You had better be joking about breaking another person's models, or I'm going to have to smite you because that's talking about illegal activities, which is against the rules, and also, we don't condone such foolish behaviour here. The player could be merely suspicious of a possile rules violation, possibly as a result of claims made by other people, and the correct response is to prove him or her wrong with official confirmation, or, if that's not possible, decide it with a dice roll or coin toss. This is meant to be about fun, and the easiest way to have fun is resovle arguments over rules quickly. in a tournament, it is the umpire's descion as to what goes if it's not official.

Anyway, on this issue, apart from the violent resolutions, Kesalin is otherwise correct in that Seeker missiles have a 2+ to hit, but according to the Tau Codex, the target DOES benefit from a cover save that it is in or immediatley behind. It must be noted they do not require LOS, and thereforeare not affetced by night-fight rules, and also, are able to be fired in addition to all the vehilce's other weapons even if it has moved over 6" (Sources: Tau Codex, Games Workshop Tau FAQ
Farseer_Del is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 12:24   #4 (permalink)
Shas'Vre
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Posts: 1,260
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Jack Bauer
Quote:
Originally Posted by Kesalin
Seeker missles benefit from marker ligts in the exact same way as all other weapons. 2+ to hit, no cover save. THe player you were playing is an idiot and should be knocked out. If he keeps on insisting just show him the codex and the chapter approved from the GW website and then break a squad of his models or a tank. Thats what i do.
You had better be joking about breaking another person's models, or I'm going to have to smite you because that's talking about illegal activities, which is against the rules, and also, we don't condone such foolish behaviour here. The player could be merely suspicious of a possile rules violation, possibly as a result of claims made by other people, and the correct response is to prove him or her wrong with official confirmation, or, if that's not possible, decide it with a dice roll or coin toss. This is meant to be about fun, and the easiest way to have fun is resovle arguments over rules quickly. in a tournament, it is the umpire's descion as to what goes if it's not official.

Anyway, on this issue, apart from the violent resolutions, Kesalin is otherwise correct in that Seeker missiles have a 2+ to hit, but according to the Tau Codex, the target DOES benefit from a cover save that it is in or immediatley behind. It must be noted they do not require LOS, and thereforeare not affetced by night-fight rules, and also, are able to be fired in addition to all the vehilce's other weapons even if it has moved over 6" (Sources: Tau Codex, Games Workshop Tau FAQ
That's the thing though, I definitely see where the player is coming from. The markerlight doesn't improve the seeker missile's chances to hit. The seeker missile itself hits on a 2+, and that is written in the description. While I believe the intent is to ignore cover saves, I don't think that it's literally written out in the FAQ, Codex or chapter approved updates.

Unless this is specifically clarified or you can point out the exact passage where the rules explain that seeker missiles ignore cover saves then we aren't getting anywhere.
__________________
Quote:
Originally Posted by Brother Edwin
Also note I have 6 lord level HQ's leading 10 scouts.
Join the arena, and succumb to the eternal lust!
http://forums.tauonline.org/index.php?topic=9054.0
ShadowDeth is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 12:26   #5 (permalink)
Shas'La
 
Join Date: Jun 2005
Location: Warrensburg, MO
Posts: 403
Send a message via AIM to TimberwolfCY Send a message via MSN to TimberwolfCY Send a message via Yahoo to TimberwolfCY
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

Wow, that's really confusing, but I guess that's right. *Only weapons improving their to-hit rolls get to ignore cover, not seeker missles themselves...that's...annoying; oh well; I'd been assuming they did ignore cover saves, as were all my friends...crap. Maybe someone should post over at the GW boards?
__________________
"They got ded big shooty gunz dat'll kill tons of boyz, but if yer can get near em den you've got a chance. Just gotta make sure you bring loads of boyz, coz you ain't gonna have a whole lot left when you get close enough to crump em." - Warloard Skarmork, The Great Despoiler
TimberwolfCY is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 13:03   #6 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: Paisley, Scotland
Posts: 5,827
Send a message via AIM to Farseer_Del Send a message via MSN to Farseer_Del Send a message via Yahoo to Farseer_Del
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

I'd say there would be no need, as it already seems to be that the case is what I said is the right answer, but then again, I did say it, so I'm hardly impartial. Feel free to post over at the GW forums of course, but please remember that the only official offical is what it says in a book, FAQ, or white dwarf, and the newest official always or at least usually supercedes the older versions.

This means that anything that comes from the word of a GW employee or an unofficial publication is unofficial offical, and as such, superseded by an official offical claim that either says the same thing or a different thing.

We all following that? Yes? Good, glad someone is, becuase I'm not... :-\
Farseer_Del is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 13:56   #7 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

What I think the problem is, is a little mal-wording on GW's part, like always.

Page 20; Codex Tau:

"...if desired, although each needs to be guided by a separate markerlight."

The seeker missiles are fired only if a markerlight hits, and it is guided by a markerlight. It says it right there on page 20.

"...and they hit on a 2+."

This next statement is fine, it is already stated that the seeker missile is guided by a markerlight, so of course they hit on a 2+ like all weapons that are guided by markerlights.

Tau FAQ v4.0.1:

"...are subsequently hit by weapons using Markerlights to improve their chance of hitting..."

Again, we already have it in our Codex that the seeker missiles are guided by markerlights, therefore they hit on a 2+ like all weapons with Markerlight guidance. The seeker missile is no different than the other Tau weapons, except that seeker missiles may only be fired with a markerlight, unlike other weapons may still be fired without them.

Seeker Missiles are guided; their chances to hit are that of the Markerlight's ability because they may only be fired as a result of a markerlight lightning a target, which all fits into the category of "do not receive cover saves" in my book. Every Tau weapon that uses a markerlight when firing, including seeker missiles, ignore cover saves. It's why they made the rule to tempt us to use them again.

That's how I see it anyhow

Cheers!
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 14:07   #8 (permalink)
Ethereal
 
Join Date: Apr 2004
Location: On the Midnight Ocean
Posts: 26,404
Send a message via MSN to Wargamer
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

I have never accepted, when playing with or against Tau, that "guided" weapons ignore cover. The Markerlight does, but I don't see how that makes every Tau in the army a master-marksman. If I equip my Guard with laser pens, do my Heavy Weapon Teams hit on 2+ and ignore cover?

Markerlights only tell the enemy where to aim. They do not guide the bullets.

Edit: The Codex seems to support my view:

Edit by 42:Page 19, Section - Markerlight. In future please do not paste direct rules from the codex word for word, thanks.

It says nothing about ignoring cover.
__________________
Farewell, Kangaroo Joe, you shall not be forgotten.

Quote:
Originally Posted by Tom Norman
"Wargamer is never wrong, Frodo Baggins; he knows precisely the rules he means to."
Wargamer is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 14:18   #9 (permalink)
Shas'O
 
Join Date: Feb 2005
Location: Alachua, Florida
Posts: 8,647
Send a message via MSN to MalVeauX
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

Wargamer:

There is no mention of the ignoring of cover in the natural Tau codex, because it is a new feature that was added with the Tau FAQ v4.0.1 from chapter approved. Our codex has been updated. Weapons guided by markerlights ignore cover saves (but do not ignore cover, say to vehicles).

Cheers!
__________________
[table][tr][td][/td][td][table][tr][td] [/td][td]Apocalypse is the only way to forty-kay.[/td][/tr][/table][/td][/tr][/table]
MalVeauX is offline  
Old 10 Jul 2005, 14:56   #10 (permalink)
42
Shas'El
 
Join Date: Dec 2004
Location: Haddenham, Aylesbury, Bucks, England
Posts: 4,098
Send a message via MSN to 42
Default Re: What do you guys think about this seeker rules issue?

Quote:
Originally Posted by Wargamer
I have never accepted, when playing with or against Tau, that "guided" weapons ignore cover. The Markerlight does, but I don't see how that makes every Tau in the army a master-marksman. If I equip my Guard with laser pens, do my Heavy Weapon Teams hit on 2+ and ignore cover?
Laser pens are different to markerlights, markerlights are actually part of weapons targetting systems, and have some sort of effect on the view down the barrel of a pulse rifle (or similar) to help the warrior/tank gunner lock onto the target for such a clear aim that even a guardsman who is in cover can be hit with ease.

--42

__________________
42 is offline  
Closed Thread

Bookmarks


Currently Active Users Viewing This Thread: 1 (0 members and 1 guests)
 
Thread Tools
Display Modes

Posting Rules
You may not post new threads
You may not post replies
You may not post attachments
You may not edit your posts

BB code is On
Smilies are On
[IMG] code is On
HTML code is Off
Trackbacks are On
Pingbacks are On
Refbacks are On


Similar Threads
Thread Thread Starter Forum Replies Last Post
Good guys or Bad guys? shas ek denekai eart General 40K 58 10 Jan 2008 02:32
Seeker Missles, why is there so little love for seeker missles? orkkrusher Tau 28 24 Apr 2007 14:10
Why can't guys admit when other guys are sexy? elflord9d Serious Debate and Discussion 51 17 Mar 2007 12:18
sniper drone markerlight rules and/or sportmanship issue Okais Tau 22 27 Jan 2007 14:52
Review: Sky Ray Seeker Missiles vs. the standard Seeker (from vehicle kits) Gallthan Hobby 1 21 Jul 2006 12:59