[Shatterhouse360]

Hi, Everybody. I'm new. I apologize in advance for yet another fan-made modification to the Tau codex. I gather there are entirely too many of them, but bear with me..

A couple friends and I are just starting to get into Warhammer 40k. We have some starter packs and have played some small 250-or so point games to get a feel for the rules. I went with Tau primarily because I think squishy soldiers inside high-tech battlesuits are cool. (my friends went with Tyranids and Chaos Daemons, because they think galaxy-devouring bug swarms and hyperspace-dwelling evil things are likewise cool)

Anyway, I've been reading up as much as I can and it seems that the Tau are probably the weakest faction in the game in 5th Edition. I tried to make a fanmod that makes them more competitive and fun to play, without blatantly raising stats all over the place and adding all the weapons available to all the other factions so Tau can be #1 all the time, by far.

The aspect I'm going to try to improve here is 'customizability'. I feel that such advanced battlesuit systems should be modular and able to deal with any opponent with the right weapon refits. This is hard to do with the Tau as they are now, because fully-customizable battlesuits are limited to a total of 5 Force-Org slots, including both HQs. I'll attempt to improve this situation and some others now.

I kept the following ideas as simple as I could. I didn't touch Kroot, or Vespid, or Vehicles(so the following ideas might not be balanced if they all stay at their current point values.)
Here's how it works. You start with a basic, squishy firewarrior. I went with these painfully weak stats:

WeaponSkill: 2
BallisticSkill: 3
Strength: 2
Toughness: 2
Wounds: 1
Initiative: 2
Attacks: 1
ArmorSave: none
Leadership: 7

Choosing a rank and a suit modifies these and grants other bonuses and restrictions on top of those. That's it.

1.) Pick a rank
2.) Pick a suit
3.) Pick weapons

Rank | Points | Notes
Shas'la: 5 points, base trooper
Shas'ui: 10 points, +1 leadership, +1 Attack. Gains access to XV2 or higher battlesuits. Troops get access to infantry wargear.
Shas'vre 15 points, +1 leadership, +1 WS, +1 Initiative. Battlesuits gain access to wargear. HQ battlesuits gain access to special issue wargear.
Shas'el: 30 points, +1 leadership, +1 BS, +1 Wound. Required for HQ.
Shas'o: 50 points, +1 WS, +1 BS, +1 Wound, +1 Initiative, +1 Attack

XV- Suits, prefixes = Weight Class:
1 - light power suit : 0 points, +1 Toughness. Grants 4+ armor save. Gets 1 infantry weapon. Can go in Troops slot. Unit size, 6-12
2 - heavy power suit: 5 points, +1 Strength, Gains jetpacks. Grants 3+ armor save. Gets 1 battlesuit hardpoint. Can Outflank. Unit size, 3-6
4 - light battle suit: 10 points, +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, +1 Wound, +1 extra hardpoint. Unit size, 2-4
8 - heavy battle suit: 15 points, +1 Strength, +1 Attack, +1 extra hardpoint. Unit size, 1-3

XV- Suits, suffixes = Modification Class:
None: 0 points, goes in Elite slot
3 - experimental: 5 points, HQ and HQ bodyguards only, +1BS, +1 weapon or equipment hardpoint
5 - stealth: 5 points, goes in Fast Attack slot, gains stealth field generator. NOT cumulative with -2 suffix bonuses
8 - reinforced: 5 points, goes in Heavy Support slot. +1 Strength, +1 Toughness, +2 weapons or equipment, Grants 2+ Armor Save, -(minus)1 WS, -(minus)1 Initiative, Gains access to 'heavy' weapons. Loses jetpacks. Loses Outflank. Loses access to infantry wargear. NOT cumulative with -5 or -2 suffix bonuses

Or, in chart form: (hope this is formatted)
Points Suit WS BS S T W I A Sv Ld - notes
0 XV-1 2 3 2 3 1 2 1 4+ 7 - 1 regular infantry weapon
5 XV-2 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 3+ 7 - 1 hardpoint, Outflank
10 XV-4 2 3 4 4 2 2 1 3+ 7 - 2 hardpoints
15 XV-8 2 3 5 4 2 2 2 3+ 7 - 3 hardpoints

5 XV13 2 4 2 3 1 2 1 4+ 7 - 2 Dual-wielded infantry weapons (HQ: Ethereal bodyguard)
10 XV23 2 4 3 3 1 2 1 3+ 7 - 2 hardpoints, Outflank, 1 unit per army, HQ
15 XV43 2 4 4 4 2 2 1 3+ 7 - 3 hardpoints, 1 unit per army, HQ
20 XV83 2 4 5 4 2 2 2 3+ 7 - 4 hardpoints, 1 unit per army, HQ

5 XV15 2 3 2 3 1 2 1 4+ 7 - 1 infantry weapon, stealth
10 XV25 2 3 3 3 1 2 1 3+ 7 - 1 hardpoint, stealth, Outflank
15 XV45 2 3 4 4 2 2 1 3+ 7 - 2 hardpoints, stealth
20 XV85 2 3 5 4 2 2 2 3+ 7 - 3 hardpoints, stealth

5 XV18 1 3 3 4 1 1 1 3+ 7 - 1 infantry weapon, 'heavy' weapons available
10 XV28 1 3 4 4 1 1 1 2+ 7 - 3 hardpoints, heavy weapons
15 XV48 1 3 5 5 2 1 1 2+ 7 - 4 hardpoints, heavy weapons
20 XV88 1 3 6 5 2 1 2 2+ 7 - 5 hardpoints, heavy weapons

The codex doesn't have point values for some individual weapons, so I made these up:
PulsePistol: 2 points
PulseRifle: 4 points
PulseCarbine: 6 points
RailRifle: 10 points
MarkerLight: 10 points
SmartMissileSystem: 10 points, Occupies 2 battlesuit hardpoints
RailGun: 20 points (not troops)

All other weapon and equipment costs are unchanged, including Drones. Oh, speaking of drones, I added:
Sniper Drones: 20 points each

So with this system the cost of the standard firewarrior is reduced to 9 points, which I gather most people think is about right.
Basic XV-25 suits with stealth and Burst Cannons are reduced to 28 points. Sounds fair.
XV-88 Broadsides come out at the exact same cost as the codex. They also end up stronger and tougher, but even worse in CC.
XV-8 suits with a Shas'ui are 25 points before weapons. Good, right?

Some neat things you can do here include:
*RailRifle-equpped firewarriors at 20 points per model(5 for Shas'la, 5 for XV18 suit, 10 for RailRifle)
*Same for MarkerLight firewarriors, which do not require a devilfish a-la Pathfinders.
*2 jump-capable Sniper Drones for 55 points (Shas'vre(15), XV-2 suit(5), Drone Controller hardpoint(0 + 2x20)
*XV-25 Stealth suits with PlasmaRifles instead of BurstCannons for 40 points per model.
*Save some points by using XV-43 instead of XV-83 in your HQ, at the cost of Strength and one equipment slot.
*A poor-man's Broadside. Shas'ui with XV-28 suit, Twin-linked RailGuns and Advanced Stabilizers for only 60 points, at the cost of having only one wound and no secondary weapon.
*Equip non-jetpack battlesuits with Rail Rifles and MarkerLights. +++

****Additional restrictions/bonuses:****
Troop rank upgrades limited to 1 per unit.
Non-troop rank upgrades limited to a maximum of 1/3 models.
All models in a unit must use the same suit, though they do not need the same weapon(s).
Battlesuits MAY equip more than 2 of the same weapon. The first two become twin-linked, then a third is added, so the suit gets, say, a Twin-linked missile pod and a regular missile pod. This allows for an XV-88 broadside suit like this:

Shas'vre(15) + XV88(20) + Twin-linked RailGun(30) + Twin-linked RailGun(30) + A.S. + HWMT + HWTL + HWBSF = 118 points
Some people might not find this agreeable, but having read some battle reports with some new 5th-edition codex armies, I don't think this is terribly overpowered. We're Tau. We need RailGuns.


So... am I on the right track? A few stat and point cost changes, and lots of added possibilities, all with tech readily available in the codex.


Thanks in advance for your input.

[knightperson]

The Tau don't need radical modding. The only thing that really needs to be changed is a house rule that sniper drones can continue fighting if their spotter goes down. Other than that, the Tau may not be an easy win, but they are far from unplayable. They are a difficult army to learn, not a generally weak one.

[CmdrBonesaw]

Welcome to the Boards, Shatterhouse!

You are right that Tau are quite a challenge right now with 5th, but you shouldn't overlook the few nasty gimmicks we got - be they the cheap 4+ cover save on our vehicles (Disruption Pods), the Sensor Spines, the ability to JSJ behind our vehicles, outflanking Kroot and Stealths, as well as wound allocation exploitation with out Crisis (particularly nasty if you run a Farsight Bodyguard list).

To be perfectly honest, you should play a few more games of 40K - with more points per side - before starting to "mod" the game. I know, at the beginning, you want to do everything at once, but 40K is - like every hobby - a big learning process, and you're just at the beginning. I learn new things every time I play, and I'm in the hobby now for more than ten years. Your experiences so far can hardly be called representative; armies need to reach a certain point threshold before they can operate efficiently (especially Tau with their highly specialised units) - about 750-1.000 points per side.
Even then, you need to get a lot of playing time to judge "fair" house rules. Just listening to what "people on the internetz" say about a given army is not really helpful. For example, on certain boards, Dark Eldar players are non existent. Of course, the opinion of the Dark Kin there is not very high. Here, we are lucky to have a quite dedicated bunch of DE players, and they justly enjoy a sinister reputation. The best thing to find out about an army is to read the Dex and play a few games with/against it. But even then, the rock/paper/sciccors principle remains - Tau will have always a hard time beating the current Necron Codex; whereas Orks usually laugh at them.

If you need any help with your Tau, we are more than willing to help you out - and then there are the tacticas linked in the stickie topic at the top of the Tau Board. If you have problems facing a particular army, though, feel free to drop by at their subboard, and discuss the matter there.

Cheers,
-Bone

[Shatterhouse360]

Thanks for that, Bone. What are your thoughts on the formula I laid out? Is there anything particularly broken about it?

My feelings have less to do with building a good list or fighting a particular opponent, and more to do with the general lack of options and competitive strength. It seems the only valid Tau lists are either all vehicles, or something like this that I just threw together:


Fireknife HQ

Helios HQ

6 Firewarriors + Devilfish w/Disruption Pod (where they'll stay for the entire match)
6 more Firewarriors + Devilfish w/Disruption Pod (same)
10 Kroot + 12 Hounds
10 more Kroot + 12 more Hounds

2 x 2 Deathrain squads

3 Railheads with lots of fixings.

This comes to about 1500 points and, despite the Tau being 'shooty' and the worst CC army in the game, this list is still outgunned by plenty of other armies, 'shooty' or not. I feel this is addressed by my formula in the following ways:

Firewarriors are cheaper and have more weapon choices. Besides simply adding more firewarriors to your army, very cheap(42 point) units can be for the people who stick them in a devilfish the whole game, while some people might try giving everyone pulse carbines and going the pinning route instead. There are also options for stealth or higher toughness and better armor saves, though at much higher point costs than the current codex has. Because let's be honest, Tau troops are very, very restrictive right now.

Battlesuits can be made more specialized at lower cost. Currently the cheapest XV-8 is 34 points and all it gets is a twin-linked flamer. My formula allows for a 26-point twin-linked flamer at the cost of sacrificing some stats and the otherwise-mandatory blacksun filter. Add 5 points for a stealth suit and it can go into a Fast Attack slot instead.

Total volume of fire is increased by allowing more battlesuit weapons to be taken in both the Fast Attack and Heavy Support slots.

HQ units are more distinct than Elite units, and generally better at everything, as it probably should be.

Ethereals aren't nearly as useless with access to XV13 "Guns-Akimbo" bodyguard troops.

More drone options, some cheaper, so we get both weapon variety and ablative armor.

RailRifles can be used without taking away from Markerlights or RailGuns

More Markerlights, supposedly our trump card and not featured at all in the list I have up above. Broadsides can use them, and troops can too. Though XV18s with them cost more per model than Pathfinders, they are harder to kill.

Everything is generally more customizable, with battlesuits ranging from 1 to 5 hardpoints, more troop choices, etc. I feel my formula would allow for players to field more unique, viable lists, that are not overpowered as far as I can see.

And the most important thing, I think, is that all current Tau lists are largely compatible with this formula. Some units didn't change point cost at all. I didn't change any weapon stats, or introduce any new equipment or special rules. Some models got a small point cost reduction while others actually went up (Broadside with plasma rifles).

Ignoring the fact that I haven't had many 40k matches, do you feel this is a simple, expandable, balanced system to build a Tau army?


Thanks again for your input
~Shatterhouse

[salamut2202]

Originally Posted by knightperson

The Tau don't need radical modding. The only thing that really needs to be changed is a house rule that sniper drones can continue fighting if their spotter goes down. Other than that, the Tau may not be an easy win, but they are far from unplayable. They are a difficult army to learn, not a generally weak one.

that's what i thought of tyranids and look what happened!

[CmdrBonesaw]

Well, the problem with your approach is that it is almost impossible to playtest - because of the big flexibility. There is no way of telling how broken different upgrades might work in conjuncture (a problem we are sure about to face with the new Codex: Tyranids). Also, it would be a radical departure from the current Codex and Tau system. As much as I like your Prefix-Suffix-Rank system, it does not really translate into 40K playability. Just imagine the confusion on the tabletop when you have to explain your opponent which unit took which upgrades!

Don't forget that Tau actually ARE very flexible when it comes to unit upgrades - Crisis are the most flexible unit in the game, with quite big options for variation. What the Tau need more are different units - though I cannot say which one's are lacking, and what new toys I'd like to see.

Nevertheless, I think the current Codex could easily be brought up to speed with a few tweaks here and there:

-Crisis: Lower cost by 5 points, increase unit size to 1-5. Maybe add the option of a "Medic" Drone granting FnP for 30+ points. Add a weapon with the 3" template - some sort of grenade launcher (AFP's little brother). Heavy Flamers instead of Flamers.

-Firewarriors: Lower cost, maybe tweak their guns a bit.

-Devilfish: Lower costs

-Vespid: Assault 2 weaponry. Nuff said.

-Bradsides: A.S.S. standard issue, and already included in the Suit.

-Hammerheads/Skyrays: Merge into a single tank with different turret options. Increase unit size to 1-3, lower costs for Railgun. Alternatively,turn the Skyray into a transport (maybe even dedicated for Pathfinders)

A few of those tweaks, and the Tau would be competitive again. I honestly cannot understand why GW manages to publish a free Blood Angels Codex (current, downloadable one), and completely neglects the Xenos races. We don't need a complete overhaul or a new miniatures range to be competitive again, just a few updates.

As for your army list: Don't forget the major advantage of Tau is not "pure" shootyness - that's Guard. We are "power to a point" - mobility, coupled with devastating concentration of fire. Your list reflects that quite well - I'd just add Shield Drones to the Crisis.

[Shatterhouse360]

I like pretty much everything you wrote here, Bone. I'll just respond to a couple:

1.) I think my subconscious hope is that the vast flexibility would delay min/maxing attempts long enough so no one could find the broken units before a new rules edition could come out.

2.) Armies built with my formula would use a combination of old and new models.
XV-1: Current Firewarrior model
XV-12: Same, with second gun
XV-15: Same,with little pod thing on his shoulder
XV-18: New firewarrior model that looks beefier.

XV-2: Current Stealth suit model
XV-22: Same, with second gun/equipment mount
XV-25: Same, with... different paint?
XV-28: New model that looks beefier

XV-4: New Crisis suit model that looks more lithe than the XV-8, like forgeworld's XV-9.

XV-8: Current Crisis/Broadside models with more/less equipment mounted.

3.) Combining Hammerheads/Skyrays was next on my to-do list.

[Shatterhouse360]

Hi, everybody. Please provide feedback on this comparison.

"Burning Eye" XV-2 vs. XV-8

I'm attempting a points comparison between one of the custom units allowed by my formula and an existing unit backwards-compatible with my formula.

Old unit: 3-man XV8 "Burning Eye" team. Twin-linked Plasma Rifles and Targeting Arrays: 195 points
New unit: 6-man XV2 "Burning Unibrow" team. Single Plasma Rifles only: 210 points

Statline comparisons(XV8 statlines changed slightly with my formula, I think)

Rank, Suit, WS BS S T W I A Sv Ld, notes
Shas'ui, XV2, 2 3 3 3 1 2 2 3+ 8+, Outflank, 6 of them
Shas'ui, XV8, 2 3(4) 5 4 2 2 3 3+ 8+, nothing special, 3 of them

Suit, Objective comparisons
XV2, Outflanking, higher volume of fire, 12 CC attacks
XV8, +2 Strength, +1 Toughness, 9 CC attacks, higher accuracy, smaller footprint, handles odd-numbered wounds better

Does anyone have any thoughts on the balancing of these two units? 15 more points for an extra hit at 12"(according to MathHammer) and the ability to outflank, at the cost of being only S3 T3, more vulnerable to template weapons, and less likely to fit in cover?