[Hobbitgoth]

I saw a Blue Table Painting video on Youtube where they made a Tau army, but subbed all the infantry with drones equipped with the weapons of the infantry dudes. I'm a total n00b who's looking into 40k, and that type of army looked pretty interesting. My question is, is that tournament/competition legal? I don't have any resources to find out on my own, and any insight would be great. Thanks!

[jonnyp]

Nope it isnt a tourny/comp legal army as drones arnt troop choices.

[Hobbitgoth]

Originally Posted by jonnyp

Nope it isnt a tourny/comp legal army as drones arnt troop choices.

Even if they're subbing for a troop choice?

[Circus Freak]

Originally Posted by jonnyp

Nope it isnt a tourny/comp legal army as drones arnt troop choices.

Yes, but very, very no.

[hr]

Hobbitgoth, yes, it is totally legal. This is because the drones are not Fast Attack: Drones as they are in the main Tau list, but as you say are converted - i.e. the "Fire Warrior" drones have underslung pulse rifles rather than the twin-linked pulse carbine armament the Fast Attack Drones have. Likewise, the suit based drones (I believe all three suits feature? I saw this video but it was a while ago) are armed and sized appropriately, and I believed there's even a Drone Hammerhead that's huge?

Basically what we call this is "Counts-as" whereby you use different models from the range to stand in, and it is perfectly legal. It is NOT the same as a proxy, I shall highlight the differences:

A "proxy" Hammerhead could be anything from a Space Marine Predator I have lying around to an old empty bottle of Coke. These exist purely because one wants to test the game effectiveness of a unit before buying the model, and it is generally frowned upon if done consistently - i.e. if the Coke bottle Hammerhead does well and I show up next week with the Coke bottle Hammerhead rather than buying/converting a real one, that's bad form.

A "counts-as" Hammerhead is a conversion, such as a Hammerhead with tracks or a slightly different weapon placing or whatever. As long as it is clearly supposed to be a Hammerhead this is perfectly fine and legal - it is most often used with melee weapons on HQ choices, for example Space Marine/Chaos Space Marine commanders the player wishes to give Lightning Claws in rules terms but would rather they were dual-wielding katanas or something.

The "Drone army" is a counts-as army, and as such is perfectly legal so long as it is clear what each model represents from the list.

Jonnyp seems to be under the imrpession that said Drone army is literally just an army composed entirely of Fast Attack choices, which aside from being ludicrously ineffective would also be flat-out illegal. However, if he had seen the video or even read your (Hobbitgoth's) post properly ("subbed all the infantry with drones equipped with the weapons of the infantry dudes") he would know that yes, this setup is perfectly legal.

Doing counts-as is a great way to make a characterful army, say for example if you want to do an entirely Guardian-based Eldar army but dislike the idea of only having Guardians in rules terms, give them close combat weapons and bam, count them as Scorpions. You can even count them as Avengers with little converting, but it, and this is important, has to be clear what unit they are representing. To illustrate, in the above example, if the Eldar player was using non-converted Guardians to represent Avengers, he could not also use non-converted Guardians to represent his Guardians, as that would cause confusion on the battlefield as to what is what, and would frankly be seen as cheating as it could allow him to have magically warping Avengers he hasn't paid the points for. It could be as simple as just not taking standard Guardians at all, or as complex as giving the "Avenger Guardians" a set of accessories (grenades and the like) pertaining to their new role, or dynamic posing, or any manner of things to make it clear they are not "just Guardians."

I hope that has made things clearer.

What are you thinking of doing, Hobbitgoth? You say you're just looking into 40k, what do you need to know?

[jonnyp]

fair enough my bad :P

[Circus Freak]

Originally Posted by jonnyp

fair enough my bad :P

Don't worry about it, it happens to the best of us

[Hobbitgoth]

Thanks for the explanation Circus. I've been looking into the 40k universe for awhile, looking at different armies and what's unique about them, and I came across Tau. I find them very compelling both in fluff and with the gameplay that I've seen on Youtube. I was just thinking of ways to make an army really unique, and if something as strange as a drone army can fly at a tourney, then I think I can finagle something creative as well.

[Fate13]

Originally Posted by Hobbitgoth

Thanks for the explanation Circus. I've been looking into the 40k universe for awhile, looking at different armies and what's unique about them, and I came across Tau. I find them very compelling both in fluff and with the gameplay that I've seen on Youtube. I was just thinking of ways to make an army really unique, and if something as strange as a drone army can fly at a tourney, then I think I can finagle something creative as well.

I was never clear on whether "counts-as" rules work in a tourney as WYSIWYG (What You See Is What You Get) apears to be the name of the game. IMHO WYSIWYG is an elitist, money grubbing approach to the game, seeing as many players like myself can't afford to buy 6 hammer heads to allow myself the variable options they present. (FYI I know you can magnetize them, but some of us lack the skill or foresight to do that... :'( )

But back to being more on topic, I have also seen the drone army on Youtube and while I think it is really cool, it must be allot of work and time to pull something like that off. If you are dedicated enough to pull it off, then all the power to you. However, if you know/think you will likely loose interest before you finish, then start smaller and work you way towards a project of that scale. In any case welcome to the wonderful universe of 40K, and remember you can spell slaughter without laughter! >